ep 107. This AND That: Intersectionality 101

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a black executive perspective look man they 

didn't get a chance to play chess they had

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to play Checker Let's talk about it t openly and 

honestly there was a lot of smart kids there black

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executive perspective now my story is not unique 

there's thousands of Professionals of color who

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have experiences like mine a black executive 

perspective whether you're aware of it or not

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it's a topic that is often avoided we'll discuss 

race and how it plays a factor and how we didn't

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even talk about this topic cuz we were afraid 

a black executive perspective in this episode

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This and That intersectionality 101 Tony titbit 

and Les fry welcome special guest Himalaya Ralph

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po laali managing director the EFM fund many of 

us have heard the term inter intersectionality

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but do we truly know what it means poined by legal 

scholar Dr Kimberly khaw in: 1989

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is a term for understanding how various forms of 

inequality interlock and play out in our lives

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welcome to a black Executives perspective podcast 

a safe space where we discuss all matters related

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to race especially race in Corporate America I'm 

your host Tony tidbit and hi I'm your co-host Les

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fry and in this episode we'll be discussing the 

true meaning of intersectionality with our guest

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this speaks highly of professional and personal 

experiences of intersectionality throughout her

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career yes and we're very excited about it so 

our guest today is Himalaya Ral palpali who is

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managing director of blackf Founders matter fund 

and she's going to walk us through and give us a

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lot of ideas and thoughts of intersectionality 

prior to being FMF Himalaya got an M MBA and

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specialized training in Venture finance 

and worked in seven different firms as the

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associate deal lead and eventually fund manager 

she was also adject professor at Portland State

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University teaching MBA and msf students about 

Venture investing and helping stand up their

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impact Ventures program she also co-launched 

Venture Partners an educational nonprofit in

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partnership with Venture lab and mvca Ventures 

forward VC University she has been recognized

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as one of the rising stars in Venture Capital 

by NC nvca Venture forward and as a 40 under 40

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recipient by the Portland Business Journal she 

was invited by Senator widen to present expert

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witness testimony in front of the United States 

Senate finance committee on her work with BAC

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Founders Himalaya has a passion for expanding his 

accessibility of Entrepreneurship to BAC and Rural

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communities as a pathway for economic development 

and generational wealth building Himalaya welcome

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to a black executive perspective podcast thank 

you so much for having me that introduction was

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so long and it made me actually feel quite old 

um but thank you so much for having me on this

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podcast I'm so excited to talk with both you 

and Les about all the topics that are really

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difficult to talk about that is awesome yeah 

you know I was going through I was like wow

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she is so accomplished the only thing missing 

in your bio is they gave her land and Tito all

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right but I'm pretty sure that's if that hasn't 

happened yet it's going to happen soon so but

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welcome to a black executive perspective and 

just to be able to so we can set the stage

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with our audience just tell us a little bit little 

background about yourself where you're from your

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family uh so hi everyone again my name is Himalaya 

um now currently I am the managing director of the

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bfm fund and I'm also the co-executive director of 

a nonprofit that trains diverse people and how to

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break into Venture Capital but my background is 

actually very different uh most people that are

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in Venture Capital now um who are Associates who 

run funds you know they've uh mostly come up from

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Top tier schools and then have filtered into 

Investment Banking or top tier Consulting and

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then have made their way through that they're 

also maybe like former operators that have had

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exits um usually people that have generational 

wealth or even if they don't have generational

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wealth have a lot of wealth in this lifetime um 

and so I think that that sets the tone sometimes

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for how policies are created structures are 

created for Venture Capital um and so I see

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myself as a little bit of an outlier in that um 

my journey started off as a social worker um and

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so that is my my first formal training my first 

Masters was I got a master's in social work and

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I was a school social worker in the Bronx um and 

that was where I started my career I also am a

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first generation immigrant and uh I think having 

like that immigrant uh journey and perspective

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into the United States um and being a woman 

of color and also someone that identifies as

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being bipac um has really shaped my reality 

and last I'm excited to talk with you about

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what that means um and so you know I think that 

has really really my cultural identity uh the

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combination and intersectionality of being both a 

woman and a person of color really really has uh

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shaped my reality my upbringing um and then also 

then my first career in social work and working

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alongside a lot of black and L and All Families 

being a part of the the community I think that

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that really helped me to understand how there can 

be different frames of reality so I'll just like

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quickly touch on that because I think sometimes 

people don't understand so I think that you know

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being so my parents um being from India I think 

that sometimes um Indian culture is really really

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rich and um American culture has its own richness 

to it and oftentimes in my household those were at

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odds and oftentimes being a person of color and 

the things that you're taught in your home are

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antithesis or anical to the things that you're 

seeing in an American perspective but what I

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learned actually from being an immigrant is that 

there was like extreme immigrant pride in like

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the country that you came from as well as American 

Pride and so then from an early age I started to

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see that like both people are super prideful and 

think that they're super right about something and

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so then can two things coexist at the same time 

and be equally like right in some capacity and so

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I translated that over to social work and so what 

I mean by that is I actually worked as a school

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social worker in Hunts Point which is in the South 

Bronx and so when people talk about it's like the

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Bronx of the Bronx right and so it's um an area 

that um has is is deemed from one perspective

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high risk so when you think about that on paper 

it's high risk because there's low literacy rates

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low graduation rates low socioeconomic status 

that is fact accurate and on the other hand

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when you actually are part of that Community when 

you live and work in that area you start to see

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that the people of Hunts Point are incredibly 

resilient are have all the fundamentals when

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we read Harvard Business reviews like articles 

that come out year after year of like who could

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be a successful entrepreneur Capital efficient 

market responsive all of these like qualities

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of a successful entrepreneur are seen in Hunts 

Point and that's only only seen if you really

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know the community that you're working with right 

and so I think that two realities can be true at

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the same time um but oftentimes we're only looking 

at something from one perspective and then making

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a judgment on what the trajectory can be based 

on our perspective and so I think I I will say

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that as like who I am because that fundamentally 

shapes all of the professional decisions I've made

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and certainly shapes the funds trajectory um now 

wow I mean we just you want to start all over I

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mean we just got into it you you killing me with 

that already we five minutes in I love it I love

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it I love it so listen we're gonna dive deeper 

into that because I have a ton of questions um

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real quickly though just based on what you were 

saying you know one of the areas that we struggle

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with as human beings is the boxes people put us in 

right and we sometimes try to just live live up to

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that box without recognizing all the other things 

that we bring to the table right even in our live

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environment that's also outside of that box right 

so we definitely want to dive into that but Les's

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has some quick questions because now you're part 

of the family so we you know you gave us a good

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background but we're going to dive in a little bit 

deeper just in some of some fun stuff to see what

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what what Himalaya likes Les all right so we do 

do like a little ice breaker at the beginning um

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I don't want you to think too heavily on this just 

come just say whatever comes to the top of mind we

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may you know engage a little bit more about your 

whatever it is that you comment about regarding

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some of these little Icebreaker questions but 

the first question that I want to ask you is Le

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I hope that none of these things are pop culture 

because I know zero things let's go for okay but

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listen what where wherever you are wherever you 

are wherever you are in in your knowledge of pop

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culture are not of Pop Culture because you know 

I wouldn't say that I am that I don't I'm not

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that a student about pop culture but wherever you 

are just let's talk about it and engage it's not

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Jeopardy we good you good you really are all 

right so what was the first concert you ever

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went to who was it and how old were you okay this 

will definitely show uh my background so being an

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immigrant um I was like deeply entrenched in being 

an immigrant and so what that meant was that my

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parents um were really struggling for a lot of 

years uh when we moved here and so I was not um

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exposed to a lot of things that most people are 

exposed to as a child um and so I actually didn't

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go to my first concert until I was in college um 

I actually didn't even start listening to music I

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started like we didn't have access to music music 

we didn't have like a a radio or a television that

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had like a cable and so uh when I first started 

listening to music was when uh there would be like

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the 17 magazines they'd send like little cassettes 

right so I'd like listen to and it'd be like a a

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a one minute one and a half minutes like excerpt 

and it's like you know to try and like Prime you

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to buy the CD and that's what I would listen to 

is that like one and a half minutes so in some of

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these like pop culture songs I only know left the 

track of the first believe it or not that's all

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you really need to know anyway right what was 

it though I'm curious now oh my God they they

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sent a few different ones they sent like Shenia 

Twain at some point this was like back in the 90s

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right they sent I think they sent a little burtney 

Spears one they also sent a brandy one and so like

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you know I just listened to like little tidbits 

but actually in college was the first time that

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I went to a concert and it was like you know 

sponsored by the college and I was like oh I'm

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so excited to go to a concert you know not really 

even knowing what it was um and so it was actually

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a a Drake concert um which is like soent okay 

you hit it off the you hit it like at the ballark

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with that one for the first concent the Drake 

experienc it was very exciting and I was like

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you know like I don't know I was like imagining 

because like I I don't know again I'm sometimes

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the things I say are so immigrant style but like 

in my head I thought it was I had seen movies

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of like operas and ballets so I thought we were 

all going to be sitting down and then we get to

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the Drake concert you know like very much like the 

music and I was like oh W this is very more lively

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than I anticipated like oh we can be free we can 

dance and so it was um quite an immigrant shock

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at the ripe age of like 20 years old so yeah you 

said like an opera right so you you hear hear in

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the background say kid kill the rapper kill the 

rapper or hotline BL did you have a I hope you

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didn't have your heels on either because you know 

I I I did I like fully dressed up because this is

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my first concert going experience and I was like 

really ready for it and you know I really do blame

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my college friends for not like looking at me and 

like immediately telling me to dress differently

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but I had a lot of fun it was such a phenomenal 

experience and I think um it's so great to like

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I you know for me it felt like the music was in 

me and that was amazing you know it's like so I

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love the Concert Experience awesome all right 

so the next question I want to ask you is what

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is I'm gonna switch this up a little bit what 

is your favorite dish like food dish you know

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like obviously it has to be something that my 

wife made naturally um but my wife you know

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every single thing she makes is brilliant and 

so you know no matter what I pick I'm going to

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get in trouble here because she's going to hear 

this podcast um one of the things actually that

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I really really love it's like a it's simple right 

it's not like actually super it's not from any of

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our cultures but um Natasha my wife um started we 

started making handmade pasta um at home and so

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you know like and actually realize like when 

people say like oh vegan pasta it's actually

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really easy to make it because there's only two 

inred inred of like the sembling of flour and

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the water and to be able to like fully make that 

ourselves like press it roll it laminate it um I

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think and then to make the sauce from scratch like 

we you know like grew tomatoes grew the basil did

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it all ourselves like even figured out like how to 

like utilize squash as a way to like you know Beef

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It Up and so I know that seems simple but for us 

I think like so much of our lives especially for

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those of us who have grown up in cities you know 

like so much of our cultural roots from like an

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agricultural perspective have been taken away 

from us and so for us it was like actually our

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first time kind of like reaching back to like 

make it something from fully scratch and then

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being able to like appreciate how like our food 

is made and being able to do that and connect

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to Our Roots yeah that's quite an accomplishment 

too because I've actually watched videos of how

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people make actual pasta chop it up into pieces 

and stuff like that it's fascinating still I'm

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still watching so I haven't gotten to the action 

side yet but I'm still watching and just you know

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just so people know too pasta did not come from 

Italy pasta came from China so people need to know

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that the Chinese were making pasta you know all 

these things that we now identify as Italian was

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actually a Chinese an Asian product yes absolutely 

this last that like Segway so wonderfully into our

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conversation because there's so many things in 

entrepreneurship that we like prioritize a white

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model of success we prioritize white ideas 

but when we actually look into it all of our

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unique cultures within the bipox sphere actually 

create so many origins of Entrepreneurship value

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I I couldn't agree with you more I couldn't 

agree with you more all right and so we're

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gonna do this last question okay all right 

here we go Bollywood or Hollywood who does it

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better I'm gonna say Hollywood would because I 

am a feminist and I while it's gotten different

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I genuinely enjoy movies that are not just about 

a love story and about the like development of

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a character outside of romantic love I think 

there's so much love that can be found in our

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lives that doesn't have to do with that and even 

like love for yourself and love for your journey

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and your accomplishments and I think Hollywood 

does a better job of that yeah it is changing a

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little bit and Bollywood uh during pride month I 

did show a film that I think it's the first film

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of the same seex female same-sex relationship that 

has been produced out of Bollywood this e Kessa a

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I think that's that's what it's called yeah very 

good film I highly recommend it by the way okay

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Les I'll have to I'll have to follow up the also 

I was gonna tell both of you Tony Les you'll have

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to meet up with me and Natasha in person so we 

can show you how to make past because honestly I

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feel like and this will be my last uh little like 

soap box on the food is so much of our culture has

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actually been taken away from us and now we it's 

been monetized by white society and we have to pay

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to access that knowledge when it's actually it 

belongs to us it's part of our heritage and our

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culture and so for us it's super important that 

we like connect back to it and we help give other

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people access to it absolutely for that I'm down 

where you can count us in right but you just you

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just spoke about that so we're going to dive into 

you know the things you talked about at the top

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you know even in the warmup and intersectionality 

and all the aspects that go to it so are you ready

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jump into it all right let's talk about it let's 

kick us off all right so I just wanted to ask you

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a lot of people don't know what the terminology 

bipo means let's talk about that um how this is

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a new classifier identify of people's identity 

explain to me what bipac means to you yes um so

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Les this is actually a great question and I've 

actually running right a fund that prioritizes

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black investment I've had a lot of conversations 

with other black Founders who say like hey why

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are you talking about bipo Founders when like the 

focus and like we feel like we're being lumped in

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to a group that doesn't represent us and actually 

that is why bipac was creat so before bip it was

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just P which is people of color and within that 

when we think about like organizations adopting

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pocc diversity standards or wanting to have like 

diversity in their hiring as well as Recruitment

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and promotion we were thinking about just pocc 

since that bucket is huge it's literally anyone

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that's not white correct then inevitably there's 

a hierarchy there of like than people were like

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mostly right like Asian uh people were being 

promoted in different fields and then it was

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leaving a lot of different groups out that 

aren't the lowest hanging fruit within Po

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and there's a lot of like you know different class 

and socioeconomic issues um and historical context

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that make it so that even within the POC space 

there are some groups that need to make sure that

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are represented within the broader sphere that's 

actually why bipac was created so bipac means

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black indigenous people of color to literally 

call out that black and Indigenous communities

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historically economically have not have the same 

treatment in this country or globally as other

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people of color and therefore need a separate 

distinction so when you are saying that you

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your company policy or your hiring practices 

are addressing bipac standards you are not just

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including the PC part but you are also paying 

attention to how you are supporting black and

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Indigenous communities I love that explanation 

I really do and that gives you that gives you

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an idea of what that means because so many people 

here in America are of a mixed race and we have

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been forced by American Standards to identify as 

one and not relate to the other and that's what

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makes what you were talking about the richness 

of people of color that's what makes us so rich

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by denying or or disregarding the ancestor the 

indigenous ancestor you're basically saying that

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that person doesn't exist and then therefore any 

of the gifts that you receive from that any of

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the of the the differences any of the things 

that make you such a unique individual you're

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actually denying that by not promoting that side 

of yourself so thank you so much for explaining

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that for us and and based on that how how broad 

is bipac because you know to be honest I'm just

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and and excuse my ignorance you know I'm just 

hearing of it I've probably seen it somewhere

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before you know when you hear people talk about 

you know poc's you know they're not saying bipac

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and and you're 100% right right um there is a 

hierarchy and it is a checker box well we have

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a PC right we have an Asian or we have somebody 

Hispanic you know blah blah blah blah blah right

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and so so talk a little bit in terms of you 

know where we are in terms of that the the

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the the definition um and how we can we broaden 

it and then more importantly when we when it is

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broaden what is the push back that you get when 

you talk bipac yeah great question so in general

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I will say I believe that the bipo sphere the 

umbrella is already pretty large because it

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still encompasses the same people as p and that 

it's like literally everyone that's not what

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correct but now because it has distinctions of 

black indigenous people of color then there can

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be more Focus on how there's like two different 

or rather three different groups within the bipo

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sphere that need to be incorporated so that you 

can't just focus on the lowest hanging fruit that

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being said I will say like I am constantly 

challenging myself to figure out like how I

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personally can do better and how like thinking 

about like the the challenges we have and for

:: 22:50

me I will say the term bipac helped more companies 

Orient around how are they supporting particularly

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black individuals and that was great and what 

hen when we saw especially in: 2020

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I'll talk about venture capital A lot of venture 

capital firms were like okay we want to invest

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more in Black Founders we want to hire black 

individuals to work at our funds but the result

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of that was that yes like from demographically 

you can say you invested in uh black Founders or

:: 23:24

hired black individuals but they were also all 

from Stanford or Harvard so then there's also

:: 23:29

like a class link to it right there's a there's 

an established socioeconomic link between access

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to higher education and particularly access to IV 

League education from the undergrad or you know

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like you know Masters or Beyond there there's 

like a a true established datadriven link and

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so when we say like we will invest we will now 

focus on black and Indigenous individuals but

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actually you have to meet a certain class standard 

in order to be considered then it still is leaving

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out a huge majority of people who identify as 

black and Indigenous who because of historical

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wealth gaps policies that were discriminatory 

zoning issues all of these like fundamental

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core things that are still happening today then 

you're still leaving out a huge percentage and

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I think we always try and figure out a way like 

no matter how much we segment it we're like okay

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what's the lowest hanging fruit in each of those 

segments and I think my challenge to myself and

:: 24:30

to like others is to like really think about the 

intersectionality between race gender and class

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and like if you really are looking at those three 

intersections then I think it will challenge us

:: 24:44

to make more holistic decisions Around The Way We 

structure programs the way we hire individuals the

:: 24:50

types of people we decide to invest and support in 

and so that's like more so where I'm like focused

:: 24:56

on to like even increase um Beyond just B and 

then number one thanks for explaining that so

:: 25:03

what what is some of the push back that you get 

because now you're being specific right versus

:: 25:09

just Po's which is Broad and you're saying black 

and Indigenous right which for whatever reason

:: 25:14

people's back of their hair start curling up 

when you hear those two those two phrases so

:: 25:19

what's some of the push back do um you know I 

would say that originally um when I first had

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started with the fund and this was back in 2020 

I I will say like well let me back up for a quick

:: 25:35

second I think that um when we first moved to 

this country we lived in the Bronx and then at

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for some period of my time I lived in Connecticut 

and I was um we were the one of the first or maybe

:: 25:49

the first nonwhite family that lived in that town 

so I think growing up I was so used to convincing

:: 25:57

people who didn't think like me to think like me 

and so and I think a lot of people who are bipo

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have that experience particularly if they move 

away from their community and go towards like

:: 26:09

the colleges or jobs that have like a lot of 

white people they're always trying to convince

:: 26:13

other people that don't think like them to think 

like that like like essentially have validity of

:: 26:18

their ideas right and so I think within that we 

create a trauma-formed response that like marginal

:: 26:24

agreement is like success and we feel like elated 

about that like we've somehow like you know helped

:: 26:31

to push something forward and I think I felt that 

way growing up I felt that way even when I started

:: 26:37

the fund you know I felt like okay I'm like gonna 

convince everyone that like investing in Black

:: 26:42

Founders is the thing to do and what I realized 

actually Tony to your point to your question

:: 26:47

is people who are fundamentally not seeing why 

investment into black Founders is critical from

:: 26:55

not only a societal perspective but an EC economic 

perspective right those are not individuals that I

:: 27:02

as one person can convince right I don't have have 

the the ssy cap over them I'm not their family

:: 27:08

member I don't have all of that history with 

them to be able to convince them of that their

:: 27:13

realities might have shaped their perspective 

in a way that like one person will not be able

:: 27:17

to convince them and so actually yes I have 

received pushback but I've also started to like

:: 27:24

train myself not to respond to the to the push 

back like if you actually don't think that black

:: 27:30

and Indigenous people should be focused on outside 

of PC okay that's your perspective but we're not

:: 27:37

like aligned on that we're not aligned on the base 

set of facts and I'm not going to waste my time

:: 27:43

trying to like trying to convince you essentially 

that black and Indigenous people matter and that

:: 27:50

the starting points of black and Indigenous people 

is vastly different because of the way that we've

:: 27:56

structured our society I love that I I love that 

attitude that mindset in terms of you know what

:: 28:03

I'm this ain't you know can't beat them join 

them all right it's more of hey this is what

:: 28:08

we're going to do this is what I believe if you're 

not there then you know what more power to you I'm

:: 28:12

still going to love you but we still G to move 

forward love it love it yeah it's their Journey

:: 28:18

because honestly like what is there like to argue 

about when you say black and Indigenous people

:: 28:23

need to like we need to have clarification around 

that to ensure that those groups are supported

:: 28:29

what push back could you have that isn't rooted 

in racism and white supremacy exactly exactly

:: 28:35

let me ask you this in term I'm sorry Les go ahead 

I'm sorry about that I I am curious though I know

:: 28:41

that you personally didn't get any push back but 

have you had anybody come to you that is black and

:: 28:46

Indigenous or one of the other identify as one 

of the other telling you there's no such thing

:: 28:52

as that or you know uh that doesn't exist right uh 

because we we are so conditioned to believe that

:: 28:59

we are of one ethnicity even though we are fully 

aware of our mixed Heritage um you know have you

:: 29:06

ever gotten any feed any Flack over that I have 

so yes I think that uh I have actually gotten a

:: 29:14

lot of push back on it from those that are not 

bipo um I tend to not necessarily um entertain

:: 29:23

that um and I think that most folks that are 

in the bipo sphere that have push back are

:: 29:28

doing it from a trauma informed place I think that 

sometimes the different ethnic and cultural groups

:: 29:34

within the bipo sphere have been hurt right every 

single group within the bipox sphere has been

:: 29:40

discriminated and oppressed and sometimes we can 

only focus on our own hurt and pain that we can't

:: 29:47

see that other people in the bipo sphere also 

experience pain and so I think that sometimes we

:: 29:52

build as a a different trauma informed response 

a lack of empathy and so I think one one I do I

:: 29:59

do think just education around like actually bipac 

what came from you know like what I was mentioning

:: 30:06

before Les of like a lot of black individuals 

don't even know that the term bipo was made so

:: 30:11

that black individuals could be focused on that 

was like number one and a lot of black Founders

:: 30:15

are like oh that makes sense right but then two I 

think that their other push back is from a lack of

:: 30:20

empathy around like supporting other communities 

so like if it's black uh individuals not seeing

:: 30:28

like how other individuals are supported or 

even in the Latino or Asian sphere of being

:: 30:33

like well we're working hard so shouldn't we 

also be represented everyone's working hard

:: 30:38

everyone's oppressed but that doesn't mean that 

there's not historical um factors that make it so

:: 30:43

that different people start out in different ways 

and continue to be received in different ways and

:: 30:49

that's the point that's the important point that 

you made there historical oppression historical

:: 30:55

oppression you know know people who come from that 

kind of a trauma you know colon colonization and

:: 31:02

and such so definitely thanks for making that 

point I'm sorry Tony go ahead no no no no no it

:: 31:07

excellent the thing is intersectionality you know 

it's um again three four five years ago I didn't

:: 31:17

hear a lot of intersectionality right so tell us 

a little bit how has it evolved how has it you

:: 31:24

know changed society and then more importantly you 

know just in your own professional personal life

:: 31:30

intersectionality it was actually um something 

that started to gain like popularity in the

:: 31:38

mental health space a little like about 10 years 

ago and then has started to come into like the

:: 31:43

mainstream media um only less than five years ago 

and so it's actually really critically important

:: 31:49

that we understand that because oftentimes so as 

an example I told you that I was a social worker

:: 31:54

right and I would be especially when I'm talking 

about bipac issues there's always one person in

:: 32:00

the room who's white who says yeah but I was poor 

right I grew up with nothing and now like you know

:: 32:06

or like I was a foster child like I didn't even 

have like you know adequate housing or safety or

:: 32:12

Security in that way but now look at me I'm in 

college especially when I used to do college uh

:: 32:17

like group therapy sessions and I would say okay 

this is exactly where intersectionality comes

:: 32:22

into play right being in poverty is definitely 

a disad Advantage being white is a significant

:: 32:30

advantage and so when you couple those things 

together because you are white and therefore

:: 32:36

and and poverty is just like being queer is can 

be a hidden identity then you have the ability

:: 32:43

to utilize the advantages of being white to 

be able to still access your way into moving

:: 32:50

up in a capitalistic Society right and the same 

thing is true I think a lot of times with within

:: 32:57

the bipo sphere around men is like we are not 

experiencing the world in the same way right

:: 33:05

even think about black men and black women are 

not experiencing the world in the same way that's

:: 33:10

not to say that either of those groups are not 

experiencing struggles it's saying that there is

:: 33:15

an intersectionality that needs to be recognized 

that when you are black and a man being a man has

:: 33:24

certain levels of Privileges and being black has 

certain levels of disadvantage in this particular

:: 33:31

country right and being a woman has certain levels 

of disadvantages right and and those are different

:: 33:38

right in different scenarios particularly when you 

compound the complex identity being black right

:: 33:43

when when we talk about like police brutality 

being a black man actually disadvantages you

:: 33:49

more than being a black woman but when it comes 

to sexual uh safety being a black woman it is

:: 33:56

far less safe to be a black woman than it is 

to be a black man right and that's and also

:: 34:01

dependent on age right and dependent on your 

circumstances so a lot of like queer homeless

:: 34:06

youth are actually more prone to violence because 

they are homeless and they are young and they are

:: 34:11

bip poop right so like there are different like 

levels to this and I think actually from like a

:: 34:17

a listener's perspective what I've taken away 

from it is to understand where your where your

:: 34:25

intersectionality gives you both the ability and 

to empathize as well as like trying to understand

:: 34:33

your own privilege like and and and especially 

when we think about like we can think about gender

:: 34:39

privilege when we can think about class privilege 

we can think about race privilege and so this is

:: 34:44

something that I especially like to talk about 

within Asian communities right Asian communities

:: 34:49

historically have come to this country only 

because they are wealthy in their country right

:: 34:54

in in their respective countries and so while 

they are absolutely being discriminated against

:: 34:59

in this country you still have historical wealth 

and like the mindset of what that means and access

:: 35:07

to education in a prior country and so you're 

coming to this country and still able to access

:: 35:12

some opportunities that people in this country 

are not able to access if they're black or Latino

:: 35:17

living in poverty go ahead sorry so basically 

what you're speaking to is the model minority

:: 35:23

myth that applied here in the United States cor 

correct correct whereas you obviously you know

:: 35:28

coming from Southeast Asia you phenotypically 

are brown complexion but yet and still you have

:: 35:34

an advantage because the historical um abuse 

that has happened to people of color in this

:: 35:41

country does not actually touch you um and we 

have to demystify that because a lot of people

:: 35:46

don't know where that word came from I mean it was 

started with Ronald Reagan and he's the one that

:: 35:51

initiated that it gave people of Asian Heritage 

um you know know a a leg up in this country mind

:: 35:59

you prior to him even making that statement the 

Chinese that were here uh during the the building

:: 36:05

of the railroad they were you know subjugated to 

a lot of things just people of color anybody that

:: 36:12

comes here that is of a different uh ethnicity or 

if different background but how do we change that

:: 36:18

mentality because I believe that sometimes what 

happens is that a lot of my brothers and sisters

:: 36:24

that come from Southeast Asia they don't see 

this is they can't understand a lot of my my

:: 36:31

African brothers and sisters too can't understand 

why it is necessary to have this space this safe

:: 36:37

space for people corre that are bipo correct yeah 

I I think it's a really large complex question um

:: 36:45

because I think and I will say like fundamentally 

I think that the solution starts with empathy and

:: 36:52

recognizing that even when you share the same 

skin or the same culture that doesn't mean that

:: 36:58

you have the exact same experience as someone 

else and being able to recognize that someone

:: 37:03

else in your culture in your like like complexion 

has had a different experience and letting that be

:: 37:10

valid going back to our first point which is two 

realities can be the same right I can be a black

:: 37:16

or a brown person and have one experience and 

someone who looks exactly like me maybe because

:: 37:22

of like having an immigrant status or having 

a different socioeconomic class might have

:: 37:27

a completely different experience and both of 

those things are valid I think can lead to some

:: 37:33

of that solution I think oftentimes too often 

we generalize our own reality on other people

:: 37:41

and so too often I hear many people from the black 

indigenous and I I haven't heard it as much in the

:: 37:50

Indigenous Community but I will say that across 

the black Latino and Asian communities we are

:: 37:57

all guilty of this is individuals in our various 

communities who are successful will then say well

:: 38:05

look at me I've been socioeconomically successful 

I've been able to go to a college I've been able

:: 38:10

to get a job so it is possible it is possible 

for you that doesn't mean that it is actually

:: 38:17

physically possible for someone else because there 

are a whole set of other factors that even if a

:: 38:24

person looks exactly like you comes from your same 

culture because of intersectionality they might

:: 38:29

have so many other factors that impede them from 

achieving that same goal even if they work just

:: 38:35

as hard as you and so I think that's like the 

fundamental takeaway from intersectionality is

:: 38:41

to stop generalizing your experience and putting 

that on other people and rather trying to figure

:: 38:46

out like and listening to other people like oh 

so you weren't able to access my same level of

:: 38:52

wealth or education tell me more about your story 

let's build a road map of all the barriers that

:: 38:58

you've had how do we then systemically and like 

collectively as a community start to figure out

:: 39:05

how we can remove some of those barriers it 

starts with empathy it starts with listening

:: 39:09

to other people because each person's journey is 

going to be unique to their intersectionality oh

:: 39:16

my God I mean this is very educational So based 

on that Himalaya how do we you know take this

:: 39:26

from being something that just you know from a 

mainstream standpoint started 5 years ago and then

:: 39:33

broaden it out where it becomes mainstream I mean 

where would you start I mean it seems like first

:: 39:38

you saying you're starting with yourself from 

an empathy standpoint so I guess that would be

:: 39:42

the first part but how do we how do we strengthen 

this where the everyday person and May and look

:: 39:48

we may not reach everybody but at least more 

individuals will be able to stop and instead

:: 39:54

of putting everybody in boxes and saying well you 

did this and I didn't or I did it and you should

:: 39:59

be able to do it a zero sum game how can we take 

it to the next level really really great question

:: 40:07

I will always say it starts with yourself because 

I think that often too often we look at societal

:: 40:13

changes and we're like oh like a government 

or a corporation needs to change their thing

:: 40:18

whether it's like around climate change whether 

it's around racism but also like how are you

:: 40:23

embodying white supremacy how are you embodying 

the things accelerate climate change right and

:: 40:27

like our policies and our you know like you know 

governing corporations only respond to the things

:: 40:35

that we as individuals want and you know push up 

and so it it does start for me at the individual

:: 40:41

level of ensuring that we are also uh examining 

how each of our practices and philosophies are

:: 40:48

aligning or not aligning with what our eventual 

goals are that being said this is why I'm actually

:: 40:54

really really passionate about entrepreneurs 

ship because I think that entrepreneurship can

:: 40:59

not only be a pathway to economic development but 

it also can be an opportunity to be able to allow

:: 41:05

different individuals to showcase the things 

that they are strong in and be able to bring

:: 41:11

that into creating economic Agency for themselves 

and their families and their communities without

:: 41:17

having all of the same like parameters that a 

normal corporate job would be right because like

:: 41:23

if you think about a corporate job first you 

have to have a good primary and grade school

:: 41:28

education to be able to access a really great IV 

League education or just a regular great education

:: 41:34

you also have to be able to pay for that then 

you have to be able to access a corporate job

:: 41:39

then once you access a corporate job you have 

to assimilate to the culture the very white

:: 41:43

dominant culture of communication of dressing of 

how you present yourself of how you like you know

:: 41:50

engage with your peers how you engage with your 

supervisor there's so many levels Where You Lose

:: 41:55

Yourself and also like socioeconomically you may 

not be able to achieve that and for me I feel like

:: 42:02

entrepreneurship gives a pathway for many more 

people to actually start where they're at and to

:: 42:08

be able to utilize the things they're already good 

at the things that they their culture is already

:: 42:13

really good at to be able to help almost reclaim 

some of the things that were lost and to be able

:: 42:19

to utilize that to achieve economic independence 

and agency but then also be able to prioritize

:: 42:28

the things that their culture is really good 

at the things that they and their family are

:: 42:31

really good at and so that for me is like one of 

the biggest things that I'm always talking about

:: 42:37

is like there's not a lot of resources going into 

Hunts Point but Hunts Point the individuals there

:: 42:44

are so brilliant and so able to do so much with 

so less what if that turned they're already doing

:: 42:51

small business ownership they're just not thinking 

they're small business owners because it's all

:: 42:54

about the hustle right that's what we do in bipod 

communities right is like especially in like the

:: 43:00

in the city like every day I'm hustling hustling 

hustling it's just a hustle right it's just like

:: 43:06

I'm gonna go from one hustle to make money to 

make rent and I'm gonna figure out how to make

:: 43:09

money the next day I'm gonna figure out and like 

from an outside perspective sometimes that could

:: 43:14

look like a little bit of a scam but internally 

I believe it also shows the fundamentals of

:: 43:20

Entrepreneurship the fundamentals of business 

ownership you're already really good at knowing

:: 43:25

how to run business how to sell how to like do 

all the things to be able to create a profitable

:: 43:31

business if that was transformed and honed into 

entrepreneurship think of how many families in

:: 43:38

Hunts Point could be super successful and free of 

the need of external resources that are not coming

:: 43:45

wow well said very well said right and and listen 

we also live in a capitalist Society we live in a

:: 43:52

country that entrepreneurship is encouraged right 

it's it's the backbone in terms of our foundation

:: 43:59

so I love what you said and I started crying 

a little bit when you talked about how you you

:: 44:04

know you start working in Corporate America and 

you have to assimilate and then you had to you

:: 44:08

know I'm sitting here just seeing my life flash 

in front of my eyes all right but all that being

:: 44:13

said though this I be honest with you I love your 

passion I love everything that you're doing all

:: 44:19

everything that you're bringing to the table let 

me ask you this outside of the entrepreneurship

:: 44:24

well I don't say outside the entrepreneurship 

how can we help you take this to the next level

:: 44:29

it's a great question I think that um one of the 

things that we do in our fund so we have a main

:: 44:36

Venture fund but then we also have two nonprofits 

one is focused on Founder representation one is

:: 44:42

focused on funer representation and so the founder 

representation creates a a business on ramp into

:: 44:49

many people who don't even like consider being an 

entrepreneur how do you actually take what you're

:: 44:54

doing as a side housle and make or main hustle 

if that's like how would explain it to the two

:: 44:58

of you that's how I would say it's like like in 

very like short terms is we're taking a bunch of

:: 45:04

people who have side hustles making it their main 

hustle so that they can like start to transform

:: 45:09

their idea of how entrepreneurship can transform 

their lives and their community and their family's

:: 45:15

lives um and so one of the things that would 

be really helpful is um I'm that like nonprofit

:: 45:21

and a Founder representation if you are a current 

business owner owner it's really great to be able

:: 45:28

to access the knowledge that you've utilized to 

be able to then help other people who are still

:: 45:34

in that mindset of like well I kind of need this 

corporate job I don't want to let go of this even

:: 45:39

if it's not a corporate job even if it's a minimum 

wage job I I need it I this gives me security and

:: 45:45

Entrepreneurship doesn't being able to see one of 

the factors of why entrepreneurship is successful

:: 45:51

in some regions is actually being able to see 

models of other people and being able to see it as

:: 45:57

like a reality if you can't see it sometimes you 

can't Envision it and so being able to have access

:: 46:03

to more people who particularly in the black and 

Indigenous communities who are business owners I'd

:: 46:10

love to connect with them I'd love to be able to 

help them help other individuals who are also in

:: 46:16

the black and Indigenous communities be able 

to figure out a pathway for entrepreneurship

:: 46:20

that works for them the other part is definitely 

an The Venture fund if if either you are wanting

:: 46:26

to go into entrepreneurship if you are wanting 

to figure out particularly how to utilize your

:: 46:32

dollar to facilitate societal change I would 

love to chat about that because there are so

:: 46:38

many different ways and that's not saying 

like our fund is the way our fund is one

:: 46:43

of many many ways but especially Tony what you 

were saying we live in a capitalistic Society

:: 46:49

but we can utilize our dollars to be able to 

facilitate the changes we want to see and so

:: 46:54

for for everyone on a on the varying ends of the 

socioeconomic Spectrum there are things that you

:: 47:00

can do monetarily or non-m monetarily to be able 

to facilitate that outcome so that many more of

:: 47:06

us tomorrow our small business owner many more 

of us are utilizing our dollars for consumption

:: 47:12

of small business owners that are in the bipox 

sphere and we're utilizing our dollars to invest

:: 47:17

in many more startup companies that are led by 

bipac individuals that we want to see that is

:: 47:23

awesome that is awes count us in we're going to 

get together out after this right and we're going

:: 47:28

to sit down we're going to connect our networks 

and we're going to definitely do something because

:: 47:32

I totally believe in the entrepreneurship and 

if people can have you know charge of their own

:: 47:37

destiny right then to that point it erases a lot 

of the things that you talked about earlier in

:: 47:43

terms of lack of opportunities based on you know 

bipac individuals or just people people of color

:: 47:49

regardless so number one we want to thank you for 

joining but however I don't know if you know this

:: 47:53

or not so I have an alra ego you know Tony tidbit 

so I send out a motivational quote every day

:: 48:00

called Tony's tidbits right so today I created one 

based on our talk and I want to get your feedback

:: 48:06

and see if this fits what we talked about today 

okay so today's tidbit is by Audrey Lord and it

:: 48:12

says there is no such thing as a single issue 

struggle because we do not live single issue

:: 48:20

lives that was perfect would you agree with that I 

I would agree with that systemic problems require

:: 48:30

systemic Solutions well you know what and you came 

here today and gave us a lot of solutions so we

:: 48:37

really appreciate it Himalaya it's been great 

for you to be able to join a black executive

:: 48:43

perspective podcast we would love to have you 

come back at some other time right we can talk

:: 48:48

about progress we can talk about some other ideas 

I know there's a million questions that Les didn't

:: 48:52

get a chance to ask that we want to dive into and 

then look we're going to get together to do the uh

:: 48:57

the pasta anyway and we can come back and and I'll 

and more importantly I just won't watch I'll get

:: 49:02

involved this time okay you you'll definitely have 

to get involved Tony Natasha and I are formally

:: 49:09

inviting you you and L to come over to reclaim 

your roots to eat amazing pasta and we'll continue

:: 49:17

this conversation okay great great great so 

everyone Thanks for tuning in to you know a black

:: 49:23

Executives perspective about intersectionality 

with our guest Himalaya R po laali she was

:: 49:31

awesome stuff to that nature we really enjoyed 

her feedback her passion the whole n yards so

:: 49:36

please continue to tune in for season one of a 

black executive perspective podcast you can find

:: 49:43

a black Executives perspective podcast wherever 

you get your podcast and visit our website at www

:: 49:50

ablack Executives perspective.com or follow us on 

Instagram YouTube and Linkedin okay for my guest

:: 49:59

Himalaya my co-host the legendary and it's her 

birthday today so we got to say happy birthday

:: 50:05

Les fry happy birthday Les happy birthday Les 

all right thank you I'm Tony tidbit we talked

:: 50:13

about it we'll see you next time love you a lot 

we're out thank you for tuning in to this episode

:: 50:19

of Tony tidbit a black executive perspective 

and for joining in today's conversation with

:: 50:26

every story We Share every conversation we Foster 

and every barrier we address we can ignite the

:: 50:33

Sparks that bring about lasting change and this 

carries us one step closer to transforming the

:: 50:40

face of corporate America if today's episode 

resonated with you consider subscribing and

:: 50:46

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:: 50:53

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:: 50:58

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