Public Views on Race: Analysis and Discussion

Tony Tidbit: 00:00:00

Jordan from Lakeland, Florida.

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No, I did not swim here.

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I'm Cuban and Arabic.

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And anytime I tell somebody that, they

ask me if I'm a terrorist or if I swam

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here, especially since I live in Florida.

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We'll discuss race and how it plays a

factor and how we didn't even talk about

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this topic, because we were afraid.

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BEP Narrator: A

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black executive perspective,

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Tony Tidbit: welcome to a black executive

perspective podcast, a safe space where

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we discuss all matters related to race,

especially race in corporate America.

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I'm your host, Tony tidbit.

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So today I am at, as you can see, W N H U.

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88.

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7 on the Richter dial at

the University of New Haven.

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So again, I want to thank the University

of New Haven for allowing a Black

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Executive Perspective podcast to come in

and promote our message in their studio.

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So I'm here with our

favorite producer, JJ.

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Hey,

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JJ Dionisio: hey, hey.

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What's

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Tony Tidbit: up, buddy?

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How you doing?

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JJ Dionisio: Doing great.

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It's been,

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Tony Tidbit: go ahead.

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What are you going to say?

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JJ Dionisio: I'm just saying,

I'm excited that you're back.

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I'm excited that we're Back together.

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Tony Tidbit: Ah, have

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JJ Dionisio: a

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Speaker: lovely conversation today.

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Tony Tidbit: I love it.

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I love it.

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And we're definitely gonna

have a lovely conversation.

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So number two, I wanna,

you know, give a shout out.

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Make sure you check out our

partners Code M Magazine.

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All right.

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Their website is uh, code m magazine.com.

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Again, their mission is saving the Black

family, by first saving the black man.

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So they have a lot of great content.

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I'm pretty sure you're going to enjoy it.

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So check them out.

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And then today is a,

is a, uh, special day.

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I got to play, pay homage to my

wife, uh, my wife for Easter.

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Believe it or not.

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I usually do you get gifts on Easter?

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JJ Dionisio: Ah, when I was like

a kid, like I'd have like a little

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basket that my parents would do, but

I do see sometimes my parents will

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get each other things on Easter.

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It's just a nice little, like,

here's a day that, that we can

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use to like show a bit of love.

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Tony Tidbit: Look,

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anytime somebody's going to give me a

gift on any day, I don't care what day

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it could be, you know, Ash Wednesday.

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All right.

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I'll take it.

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I just never, you know, but whatever.

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I always got bunnies and chocolate,

but my wife gave me this book,

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uh, Our Hidden Conversation.

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What we say about race by Michele

Norris and you know, I was captivated

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number one I said, thank you number

two as I was going through this.

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It just blew me away So I wanted to

you know, come on and talk about some

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of the things That I've learned by

reading this book, and I'm pretty

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sure you're going to Enjoy it as well.

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So like I said today We're gonna be

sharing examining Selected passages from

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Michele Norris's Our Hidden Conversations.

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Her book explores the intricate and

frequently unvoiced discussions about

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race in America through a blend of

personal stories and sharp analysis.

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Michele reveals the complex details

and significant forces behind racial

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conversations in our daily lives.

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The book urges readers to ponder.

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They're personal encounters and promote

transparent, sincere dialogues on

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race, identity, and comprehension.

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A little bit about Michele.

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Some of you may know she's on

NPR's All Things Considered.

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Before NPR, she worked at NBC, ABC

News, and also contributed to top

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publications like the Washington

Post and Los Angeles Times.

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She was honored as Journalist of the

Year by the National Association of Black

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Journalists in 2009, and she received

an Emmy and a Peabody Award, and also

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was recognized by Essence and Ebony, uh,

for her influential presence in media.

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And you might've seen her on

certain shows like Meet The Press.

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So look, why don't we jump into

this and get an understanding

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a little bit more about Michele

and why she started this book,

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Stephen Colbert: Michele Norris.

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It's called our hidden conversations.

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What Americans really think

about race and identity, which

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is over a decade in the making.

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How did this start?

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Michele Norris: It started with postcards.

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I wrote a book about my family's

very complex racial legacy.

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I was going out on a 35 city book tour.

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And I thought no one

wanted to talk about race.

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I thought people would rather eat

their toenails than talk about race.

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Tony Tidbit: And you know what?

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That is true, right?

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We, we have never talked about race

at all, um, from the beginning.

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So I can definitely see why

she thought that I'm going to

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provide a little bit more detail.

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So I have her book here.

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Uh, and, and this is what she said,

she said, "more than a decade ago,

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I set out to write a book about how

Americans talk and think about race.

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The rise of Barack Obama's political

fortunes at the time was the beginning

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to shift how the nation saw itself.

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The changes were both

intense and highly nuanced.

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Tea party followers in the Uncle Sam

costumes began taking to the streets

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and screaming, I want my country back.

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Latino voters met anger with anticipation,

marching for immigration reform with

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signs in the air and hope in their hearts.

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Black voters quite literally

wore pride on their shoulders.

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Barack to the future t

shirts were on back order.

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America's demographics were shifting.

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A nation built on a foundation

of white supremacy was heading

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towards a majority minority status.

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In popular media, this was heralded

as progress, but in private spaces

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and quiet conversations, this shift

was also met with dread and anxiety.

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After all, if you paid any

attention to how minorities have

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been treated in this country over

centuries, you might reasonably be

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concerned about becoming one too.

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And demographic change was just a jolt

and amid a ripple of seismic shocks

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because it was happening alongside

so many other cultural shifts.

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Economic turmoil, technology upheaval.

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Global conflict, the normalization of

gay marriage and the widening and embrace

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and celebration of LGBTQ plus life.

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The centering of Latino language and

culture, a warming climate, unapologetic

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white nationalism, growing diversity

in advertising and entertainment.

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And of course, the constant

stream of videos captured the

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killing of black Americans

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by police and would be vigilantes.

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All this was amplified, exaggerated,

or ingested through social media

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platforms that seemed to fertilize

the most fetid of human emotions,

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anger, umbridge, Envy, Shame, or

Fear, all of it added to Vertigo.

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I wanted to chronicle the visible

changes in the United States, but more

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than that, I wanted to somehow capture

the subtle, subterranean, shifts.".

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So there's a lot going on, right?

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And think about all the things that she

talked about was going on that timeframe

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and why she wanted to find out more

about what people thought about race.

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So let's see how she

got this off the ground.

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Michele Norris: And so I thought I

need an invitation for people to enter

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this conversation, but I went to the

local print shop in my neighborhood

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and I printed up 200 cards and I

started leaving them everywhere I went.

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Stephen Colbert: Like, just

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like, you would leave it at a coffee

shop, or you would Leave it at

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Michele Norris: the sugar

station, at the Starbucks.

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Yeah.

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Leave it in a Bible at a hotel.

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Leave it in the little, little

pocket in back of an airline.

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Leave it in the kiosk at a restaurant.

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Leave it on a seat.

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Stephen Colbert: And what would it say?

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Michele Norris: They, postcards

all said, Race, your thoughts,

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six words, please send.

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Pretty early, people were already starting

to pack a lot into just six words.

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Saying things like I'm only

Asian when it's convenient,

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white, not allowed to be proud.

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Stephen Colbert: How many

ultimately did you end up getting?

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Michele Norris: We have archived

more than 500, 000 and, and

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we are getting more that come.

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And

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most of them, I should say, most of them

come in digitally now through the website.

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Tony Tidbit: So think about that, right?

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Sending out, just taking postcards and

just leaving them all over the place.

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And then just saying, give me six

words on your thoughts about race.

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And all of a sudden you end up

getting 500, 000 responses from

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people all over the country.

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Right.

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Where in beginning she thought that

nobody would ever want to talk about race.

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So let's do this.

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JJ, why don't you and I, cause I, and

look, I'm going to tell you flat out,

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um, this is a book you should get.

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And just to be clear here, we,

we don't have no association.

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We're not getting any commission

or anything like that.

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But I think it's very powerful.

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To be able to see people from all

over the country, able to leave

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their thoughts when it comes to race.

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And when I was like, um,

what's the word I want to use?

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I won't say shocked, but I was

fascinated by reading all the different

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thoughts from all different people.

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And you know what?

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As I was going through it, I

was learning a lot as well.

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Because, you know, a lot of times

we talk about our own situations and

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we don't think about, you know, The

other points of view or perspectives

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from other individuals as well.

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So JJ, are you good for that, man?

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Yeah,

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JJ Dionisio: I'm great for that.

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Tony Tidbit: Okay.

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So why don't we go back and forth?

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You start with one, then

I'll start with one.

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Okay.

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JJ Dionisio: All right.

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So I have Melanie from Las Vegas, Nevada,

who says, yes, I have my green card.

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Tony Tidbit: Okay.

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Michele Taylor from Nashville,

Tennessee says, pay no attention

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to attention to my packaging.

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JJ Dionisio: Uh, an anonymous

person from Spokane, Washington

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says, I'm a redneck, not a racist.

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Tony Tidbit: Uh, somebody from

Gingerville, Michigan says

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You are unique like everyone

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JJ Dionisio: else.

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Uh, Talia from Boulder, Colorado

says, Indo Pak American.

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Sounds like camping gear.

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Tony Tidbit: Uh, Brandy

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from Chicago, Illinois.

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I constantly was asked, what are you?

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Or are you mix?

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Nope.

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I'm black and albino.

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It's a fascinating existence.

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JJ Dionisio: Uh, Nathan

from Tempe, Arizona.

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I don't know if that's pronounced right.

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I don't know.

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Uh, says, why can't

they pick normal names?

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Yes.

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Tony Tidbit: Um, uh,

Brad from Downington, PA.

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We won't make it like this.

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JJ Dionisio: Amber from, uh,

Shemokin, Pennsylvania says,

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Separate only your laundry by color.

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Tony Tidbit: Uh, James McRae

from Hemet, California.

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I'm not a criminal, statistic, or failure.

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And then he reads, he wrote this.

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I am not what society has labeled me.

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I am not a criminal because I

am so called African American.

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I am not a statistic because I grew

up in a single parent household.

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Studies suggest that when a young black

boy grows up without a father in the

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home, chances are he will get in trouble

with the law at an early age, drop out of

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school, and be defiant towards his mother.

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By the way, I did not do any of these.

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I am not a failure.

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JJ Dionisio: Uh, Jeff from

Glendale, California says there

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will always be a quote they.

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Tony Tidbit: Robert Franklin

from Denver, Colorado.

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No, no relation.

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My world told me I'm black.

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JJ Dionisio: Uh, Eve from

Hollandale, Minnesota says

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should be Black Lives Matter too.

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Tony Tidbit: Bob from San

Diego, San Jose, California.

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When will race not matter anymore?

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JJ Dionisio: A mandolin from

Oakland, California says.

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Bullies grow up, black boys die.

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I'm mixed, I'm, I'm mixed,

black and white, and I often

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feel like I don't belong.

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Both sides have shown

me beauty and ugliness.

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Tony Tidbit: Brandon from

Portsmouth, Virginia.

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Be twice as good as everyone.

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Sometimes as an African American, I feel

as I have to work twice as hard to top

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white people in order to achieve success.

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JJ Dionisio: Ryan from Kowota,

oklahoma says, anti racist

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is a code for anti white.

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Tony Tidbit: Uh, Paul from Houston, Texas

says, sag your pants, lose your chance.

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Whether right or wrong, the

impressions we make on others play

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a big part in how others treat us.

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JJ Dionisio: Bobby from

Baltimore, Maryland says, pro

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black doesn't mean anti white.

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Uh,

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Tony Tidbit: JB, no, GB from

Charlottesville, Virginia, there

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is some truth in stereotypes.

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JJ Dionisio: Uh, Deb from Tucson, Arizona.

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Says need a fork can't use chopsticks.

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Yes.

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I am quote from somewhere born

in Korea adopted as an infant

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Three weeks old to be exact.

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Yes.

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Most of my family is white Yes, I

grew up on a farm in Iowa and have

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driven a tractor and a combine.

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Yes, I'm adopted.

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Yeah, I like Asian food, Mexican food too.

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No, I don't remember anything about Korea.

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Um No, I don't speak Korean.

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No, I don't know who my

biological parents are.

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No, I'm not really curious about it.

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And no, I can't use chopsticks.

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So give me a fork and don't make any

assumptions about who you think I am.

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Or how you think I should act or be.

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Tony Tidbit: Uh, Shanna

Blackwell from Chicago says,

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Who decides when you're over it?

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Who decides when people who have

experienced inequality should

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get over those experiences?

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Are

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JJ Dionisio: they yours?

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Are you sure?

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Adam Connor from Washington, D.

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C.

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said.

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My sister and I are both

adopted from South Korea.

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Our parents are white.

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One of my memories from childhood is

being at a grocery store and constantly

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having people ask my mom, Are they yours?

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As they would, uh, to my sister and me.

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I remember one time, someone

then adding, Are you sure?

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As if my mom was going to look over and

realize, Whoa, these kids are Asian.

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Thank you stranger in a grocery

store for pointing that out to me.

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Tony Tidbit: Oh man, uh, um,

Michele Welch, uh, in Maryland.

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I'm relieved my son looks white.

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I'm a biracial white, I'm

biracial white and Pakistani.

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I look Pakistani, my husband is white.

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You My son is big, blonde, fair

skinned, blue eyed toddler.

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We live in an affluent,

largely white town.

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I'm grateful he will never be asked

about his nationality, be the diversity

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hire, or live with an identity crisis.

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Is that wrong?

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To want life to be easier for

your children, even if it seems

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like it's a step backward?

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JJ Dionisio: Uh, someone from

Brooklyn, New York said, Adopted.

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How much did she cost?

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White mom and Chinese daughter

said right in my face with my

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five year old daughter in my lap.

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She clutched me, buried her

face in my chest, and sobbed.

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I put my arms around her and

said, don't be disrespectful,

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and walked out of the shop.

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Tony Tidbit: Randy, Gilbert, Arizona.

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White guy, black church, met wife.

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At the end of a failed marriage, I

explained my love of gospel music.

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My first record purchase was Bobby

Blue Bland when I was 7 years old.

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To our marriage counselor, he made me go

to a black church as part of my recovery.

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That led me to be open to the

possibility of dating a black woman.

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I met Rose on Match.

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com and we have been gloriously

married for 12 years.

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JJ Dionisio: Shelly says, Two

black lesbian daughters say what?

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Uh, after the initial shock of their

coming out, I realized that they are,

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uh, the long search for the fruits

of my: 1960

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So, when I see the economic travesties

in our community, after I pledged on

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campus 40 years ago to give 10, 000

it all the help, uh, to give it all

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the, all, sorry, after I pledged on

campus 40 years ago to give it, to

325

: 00:17:07

give my all to help to end my people's

suffering and we will suffer still.

326

: 00:17:13

I think of my daughters and

realize their courage is that long

327

: 00:17:16

awaited fruit no matter how small,

the piece out of the whole pie.

328

: 00:17:21

Tony Tidbit: Alice

329

: 00:17:22

from Milwaukee, Wisconsin.

330

: 00:17:24

I'm lucky I don't look Jewish.

331

: 00:17:26

Now that I'm incognito as a Jew, having

the last name Swenson, when people do find

332

: 00:17:33

out they do say this from time to time.

333

: 00:17:36

It bums me out every time.

334

: 00:17:38

What does a Jew look like?

335

: 00:17:40

Like me?

336

: 00:17:41

This is such a backhanded compliment.

337

: 00:17:44

I never know what to say.

338

: 00:17:47

Thank you.

339

: 00:17:47

How dare you?

340

: 00:17:50

JJ Dionisio: Uh, David from New York

says, Gay, but at least I'm white.

341

: 00:17:54

Someone once told me in, in

conversation that even though

342

: 00:17:57

I was gay, at least I'm white.

343

: 00:17:59

As if I wasn't allowed to feel oppression

and struggle because white trumped gay.

344

: 00:18:04

There's another side to it, I know.

345

: 00:18:06

In some ways, it can be

harder to be gay and black.

346

: 00:18:09

But I'd rather not bring the

race card into the gay community.

347

: 00:18:13

Tony Tidbit: Frank

348

: 00:18:14

from Knoxville, Tennessee.

349

: 00:18:15

If you are black, you'll know.

350

: 00:18:18

I have a good fishing buddy friend.

351

: 00:18:20

I'm white and he's black.

352

: 00:18:22

One day I was driving on the interstate

through the center of town and he said

353

: 00:18:26

to me, The speed limit on this stretch

of the interstate is 55 miles per hour.

354

: 00:18:31

I was driving 65 miles per hour

and was completely surprised.

355

: 00:18:35

I said that I had lived here all

my life and did not know that.

356

: 00:18:39

He said, if you were black, you will know.

357

: 00:18:43

JJ Dionisio: Emery from

Milwaukee says, I don't fit.

358

: 00:18:46

Don't look closely.

359

: 00:18:48

My whiteness is always sidelined when

people learn about my lesbian moms.

360

: 00:18:52

Don't look closely, and

I have all the privilege.

361

: 00:18:55

But then it disappears.

362

: 00:18:56

There's no box for my diversity.

363

: 00:18:59

Tony Tidbit: Michael

in New York, New York.

364

: 00:19:02

My aunt boiled the girl's utensils.

365

: 00:19:04

Just want to make sure that you understand

the girl was how many people in the

366

: 00:19:09

1950s and 60s referred to their maid.

367

: 00:19:15

JJ Dionisio: Um, an

anonymous person in the U.

368

: 00:19:17

S.

369

: 00:19:17

said, Would Martin Luther

King support gay rights?

370

: 00:19:23

Tony Tidbit: Saw, this is from Ed in,

uh, California, saw the hurt in his eyes.

371

: 00:19:28

When I was in fourth grade, a

new family moved into our lower

372

: 00:19:31

middle class apartment complex.

373

: 00:19:34

They were African American.

374

: 00:19:35

I was out riding my bicycle with

a friend when the six year old of

375

: 00:19:39

that family rode his bike up to us

and asked if he could ride with us.

376

: 00:19:43

We said no, and I saw the look of

hurt in his eyes before we rode away.

377

: 00:19:50

Later, I thought about it and wondered if

he thought it was because he was black.

378

: 00:19:55

It wasn't.

379

: 00:19:56

My best friend in school

named Bobby was black.

380

: 00:19:59

It was because we thought he was too

young and wouldn't be able to keep up.

381

: 00:20:04

I never saw the young boy again.

382

: 00:20:07

But 55 years later, at the age of

65, I still remember his face and

383

: 00:20:12

regret we didn't let him join us.

384

: 00:20:15

JJ Dionisio: Uh, Michael from

Dallas says Rocky wore a hoodie.

385

: 00:20:19

Kill him.

386

: 00:20:23

Tony Tidbit: Uh, Phyllis

from Fort Worth, Texas.

387

: 00:20:26

Leave identity issues to other people.

388

: 00:20:28

I'm a 60 year old woman who has lived

through segregation, integration,

389

: 00:20:32

colored, negro, black, African American,

segregation, marches, integration, and Pan

390

: 00:20:38

Africanism, opulent consumption, financial

catastrophe, and now I'm just me.

391

: 00:20:47

JJ Dionisio: Uh, Kathy from Philadelphia

says, I thought I was being funny.

392

: 00:20:50

I saw a student I work with wearing a

baseball cap and a hoodie tied tightly

393

: 00:20:54

around her face and I said, You're

rockin your perpetrator look today.

394

: 00:20:58

I didn't realize I'd upset her

until another staff member told me.

395

: 00:21:01

I was mortified.

396

: 00:21:03

Tony Tidbit: Sherry from

Montgomery, Alabama says, Lady.

397

: 00:21:07

I don't want your purse.

398

: 00:21:09

If I only had one dollar for every time

I shouted this in my head to a white

399

: 00:21:14

woman in the movie theater or restaurant

or grocery store that grabs her purse

400

: 00:21:20

from wherever she has it sitting and

pulls it to her side when she sees me

401

: 00:21:25

approaching, pushing, pushing my shopping

cart full of kale and tofu or whatever.

402

: 00:21:30

As I watch white, white people pass

her without provoking any concern

403

: 00:21:36

for the safety of her hand bag..

404

: 00:21:39

JJ Dionisio: Uh, Jack from San

Bernardino, California says,

405

: 00:21:41

Their age, not race, scares me.

406

: 00:21:44

Many teens act like they are

10 feet tall, can live forever.

407

: 00:21:48

I don't know what happened, um, in,

uh, in Trayvon's case, but I'm 6'5

408

: 00:21:54

and 300 pounds, and feel uncomfortable

when confronted by young adults,

409

: 00:21:58

no matter what color they are.

410

: 00:22:00

Standing with their hands in their

pockets, And they have a hoodie on is

411

: 00:22:03

scary because I don't know what to expect.

412

: 00:22:07

Tony Tidbit: Douglas, from Florida.

413

: 00:22:09

White privilege, enjoy it, earn it.

414

: 00:22:11

I am not apologizing for

something I have no control over.

415

: 00:22:15

Every major contribution to mankind

was done by people of my race.

416

: 00:22:19

Society owes white people a

debt of gratitude, not scorn.

417

: 00:22:25

JJ Dionisio: Uh, Rob from Lakeland,

Florida says, I don't always wear a suit.

418

: 00:22:29

I'm a leader in the industry and in

the community, and I'm well respected.

419

: 00:22:33

Most days I wear a suit to work,

but I wear a hoodie when I run,

420

: 00:22:37

and gym shorts when I go shopping.

421

: 00:22:39

I should not have to worry about

being followed, having the police

422

: 00:22:42

called on me, or being shot.

423

: 00:22:45

Tony Tidbit: Jordan,

from Lakeland, Florida.

424

: 00:22:47

No, I did not swim here.

425

: 00:22:49

I'm Cuban and Arabic, and any time

I tell somebody that, they ask me if

426

: 00:22:54

I'm a terrorist, or if I swam here,

especially since I live in Florida.

427

: 00:22:59

JJ Dionisio: Uh, Nathaniel from

England says, I want to wear a hoodie.

428

: 00:23:05

Nice and simple.

429

: 00:23:06

Tony Tidbit: Well, as you can see, there,

430

: 00:23:10

there are, uh, a lot of different

perspectives around the country, um,

431

: 00:23:16

from individuals when it comes to race.

432

: 00:23:18

Uh, some of these stories.

433

: 00:23:19

You know, um, are heartbreaking.

434

: 00:23:22

Um, but people have all

different perspectives.

435

: 00:23:25

So I really think it's important

that you pick this book up because,

436

: 00:23:31

you know, it's going to, at

least for me, it enlightened me.

437

: 00:23:35

All right.

438

: 00:23:35

Especially the one I just read, right.

439

: 00:23:37

And I didn't read this yet.

440

: 00:23:38

I'm Cuban and Arabic, and every time

I go somewhere they ask me if I'm

441

: 00:23:42

a terrorist, okay, or you know, you

don't look Jewish, or, you know, or

442

: 00:23:47

JJ Dionisio: Yeah, one of the ones that

stood out to me was one of the ones

443

: 00:23:49

you read actually, which was, um, the

one saying that all, that everything

444

: 00:23:56

influential and important in society

was made by white people, and In my

445

: 00:24:03

mind, I was like, I never thought that

there were people who thought like that.

446

: 00:24:06

Cause, cause when you think about

America, not even, not even just

447

: 00:24:09

white people around the world, just

America, America's most important, most

448

: 00:24:14

influential global export is music and

specifically jazz and rock and roll,

449

: 00:24:20

both of which created by black folks.

450

: 00:24:24

America as a country hasn't produced

much unique and significantly beneficial

451

: 00:24:30

to the world as a greater whole.

452

: 00:24:32

Really other than that and those were

both pioneered created from the ground

453

: 00:24:38

up through the trauma and like Bonding

of black people and it's just it's

454

: 00:24:44

very interesting to me that some people

in their mind are like now everything

455

: 00:24:49

important It's all from white people.

456

: 00:24:51

Tony Tidbit: Yeah, I mean well and to

be well number one I at least appreciate

457

: 00:24:55

them, or whoever it was, right?

458

: 00:24:57

They wrote it on a postcard,

this is what they believe, right?

459

: 00:25:00

And this is what they

460

: 00:25:00

JJ Dionisio: And they

were honest about it.

461

: 00:25:01

Tony Tidbit: And they were

honest about it, right?

462

: 00:25:03

And, and this is the thing.

463

: 00:25:05

We can pick all this apart, right?

464

: 00:25:07

We can pick anyone, we

can do that all day.

465

: 00:25:10

I, for me, and I would recommend

if you pick up this book, Our

466

: 00:25:15

Hidden Conversations by Michele

Norris, what we talk about and Race.

467

: 00:25:20

For me, as I read this, I read it not

to, Um, be appalled or shocked or I

468

: 00:25:28

can't believe he or she said this,

what do they mean, blah, blah, blah.

469

: 00:25:32

I read it to try to understand

how other people think, right?

470

: 00:25:37

And as you go through this, it'll give

you a certain level of perspective.

471

: 00:25:43

That we definitely need, we

have a lot of work to do.

472

: 00:25:46

We have to really break

down these barriers.

473

: 00:25:49

We have to, you know, really communicate

with one another because at the end

474

: 00:25:53

of the day, that's the only thing

that's going to help bridge the gap.

475

: 00:25:58

And obviously, you know, if somebody

doesn't want to communicate and

476

: 00:26:00

this is the way they want to, You

know, live their life and you need

477

: 00:26:03

nothing you can do about that, right?

478

: 00:26:05

But at the end of the day, I just

think it's very important that we talk

479

: 00:26:09

about these issues and and listen to

each person's perspective regardless

480

: 00:26:14

if we disagree with it or not, right?

481

: 00:26:18

Because for whatever reason they've

come to that conclusion that thought

482

: 00:26:22

process and it'll be good You

know, in a conversation to try to

483

: 00:26:26

understand why do they think that way?

484

: 00:26:28

What experience did they go through that

I haven't that made them feel that way?

485

: 00:26:32

So this is awesome.

486

: 00:26:34

Number one, I thank you for, for,

for going through some of those JJ.

487

: 00:26:38

So let me ask you this real quick.

488

: 00:26:40

What did I, what, based on what

you read, what, what did you

489

: 00:26:44

glean out of this of anything?

490

: 00:26:46

JJ Dionisio: Uh, a big thing for me is.

491

: 00:26:48

A lot of people are curious.

492

: 00:26:51

Genuinely.

493

: 00:26:52

Like, I'm looking on this one page, there

was the person who was asking, Would

494

: 00:26:56

Martin Luther King support gay rights?

495

: 00:26:58

And, see, and I don't know from what

perspective this person is asking that

496

: 00:27:02

question, because I've heard some people

genuinely want to have that conversation.

497

: 00:27:05

I've heard some people Use it

as a, um, use it as a way to

498

: 00:27:12

lessen his impact and importance.

499

: 00:27:14

Like I've, I've heard it as just

a genuine curious conversation.

500

: 00:27:18

I've heard people try to use it

as a way to be like, ha, gotcha.

501

: 00:27:21

You don't actually support Dr.

502

: 00:27:23

King and what he was and his

message he was spreading.

503

: 00:27:27

So I just think it's, I.

504

: 00:27:29

I like that that one doesn't have

anything else because like some of

505

: 00:27:32

them had like the the the six words and

then a blurb I like that that was just

506

: 00:27:36

that yeah because it is interesting

to think about that um but at the

507

: 00:27:39

end of the day as as someone who is a

member of the LGTBQ plus community it's

508

: 00:27:47

in my mind that doesn't that wasn't what

he was standing on he I don't I think he

509

: 00:27:55

he wanted to do You know, equal rights

and no segregation for, for everyone.

510

: 00:28:01

So, would he support gay rights?

511

: 00:28:05

I don't know.

512

: 00:28:06

But all I know is what he

wanted wasn't excluding them.

513

: 00:28:11

Right, right.

514

: 00:28:11

So I think that's

interesting to think about.

515

: 00:28:14

Um, definitely a lot of the, um,

the page with the three things

516

: 00:28:19

about, uh, the kids who are adopted.

517

: 00:28:22

That always just, you know, it hits.

518

: 00:28:25

It's, it's tough.

519

: 00:28:26

It's a scary world out there.

520

: 00:28:28

I, some of my best friends

growing up, you know, didn't know

521

: 00:28:33

their, their biological parents.

522

: 00:28:35

They were born in either Korea or Japan

or China and adopted by a white family.

523

: 00:28:42

And that's just a very interesting

part of their identity.

524

: 00:28:46

It's something that they had to

navigate for themselves growing up.

525

: 00:28:49

And especially the first one, where is

the person saying, Uh, that they need a

526

: 00:28:53

fork and that they can't use chopsticks

and really just like hearing what

527

: 00:28:58

they had to say and the whole thing.

528

: 00:29:01

Yes, I am from somewhere.

529

: 00:29:03

Yes, they were born somewhere, but they

don't have much connection to it because

530

: 00:29:10

for them it's their cultural background.

531

: 00:29:14

That's more important than the

fact that they grew up on a farm

532

: 00:29:16

in that lifestyle and not in like

a, an Asian American community.

533

: 00:29:22

But that doesn't, by any means,

lessen how Korean they are.

534

: 00:29:28

Right, right.

535

: 00:29:29

Or lessen how, how American they are.

536

: 00:29:31

Right, right.

537

: 00:29:32

So I think it's, it's very interesting

to hear that, how some people have

538

: 00:29:36

different perspectives on that.

539

: 00:29:38

And this person.

540

: 00:29:40

They, they're like, I'm me.

541

: 00:29:42

Tony Tidbit: Yeah, I, I, so, and

again, I think that, like I said, we

542

: 00:29:46

could go through this and be like,

I can't believe this, and this, and

543

: 00:29:50

this, and that, who knows, right?

544

: 00:29:51

I think it's more about

just learning overall.

545

: 00:29:54

Yeah.

546

: 00:29:54

Right?

547

: 00:29:55

You know, race is, is complex.

548

: 00:29:57

Right.

549

: 00:29:58

It's not when I grew up, I thought

it was just black and white.

550

: 00:30:00

It's not just black.

551

: 00:30:02

It's just what you just

got finished talking about.

552

: 00:30:04

There's so many other nuances is religion.

553

: 00:30:06

It's, you know, uh, sexuality.

554

: 00:30:08

I mean, there's a million things

that like economic status as well.

555

: 00:30:12

All those things, right?

556

: 00:30:14

All those things.

557

: 00:30:14

So, and these are things that

people wrote that they felt.

558

: 00:30:18

Okay.

559

: 00:30:19

And here's the thing.

560

: 00:30:20

I learned this a long time ago.

561

: 00:30:22

Um, and I think it was Maya Angelou,

one of her favorite quotes is that

562

: 00:30:26

at the end of the day, It's, you

can't talk about or you can't say

563

: 00:30:30

somebody shouldn't feel that way.

564

: 00:30:32

If this is how you feel,

this is how you feel.

565

: 00:30:35

Regardless if we think it's

right or wrong, or how dare you,

566

: 00:30:38

or whatever the case may be.

567

: 00:30:39

This is how people feel, right?

568

: 00:30:41

And everybody has a different perspective.

569

: 00:30:43

As much as we want people to move,

move them over to our perspectives,

570

: 00:30:48

and we think it's common sense,

and this is one of the things I

571

: 00:30:50

always do, it's common sense, right?

572

: 00:30:53

But at the end of the day, it's

not, it's not common sense for them.

573

: 00:30:55

It's common sense for them in terms of

their thought process based on their

574

: 00:30:58

experiences, based on their feelings.

575

: 00:31:01

Right?

576

: 00:31:01

And so at the end of the day,

it's really about learning from

577

: 00:31:05

these different perspectives.

578

: 00:31:07

And, and more importantly,

enlightening ourselves that there's

579

: 00:31:12

a whole, she got 500, 000 responses.

580

: 00:31:15

This wasn't just 20.

581

: 00:31:16

JJ Dionisio: No.

582

: 00:31:17

Tony Tidbit: Okay.

583

: 00:31:17

So And, and we just read a few, okay, and

there's a lot, there's a ton, a lot more.

584

: 00:31:23

So at the day, let's learn from them

and let's learn how we can bridge that

585

: 00:31:27

gap and, more importantly, be willing

to listen to other individuals, hear

586

: 00:31:33

their points of view, not to defend, not

to fight back, but to understand, okay?

587

: 00:31:40

We don't have a agree.

588

: 00:31:41

But at least understand, if we

could start with just that, I, you

589

: 00:31:47

know, I, I just think we, we, we can

definitely bring, uh, like I said,

590

: 00:31:52

definitely bring people together.

591

: 00:31:53

So that's the thought.

592

: 00:31:54

JJ Dionisio: Something that for me,

after reading through all these,

593

: 00:31:57

gives me a lot of hope is that

594

: 00:32:02

a lot of this, I haven't been

hearing much from people in

595

: 00:32:05

my generation, my age range.

596

: 00:32:09

I'm not hearing people say.

597

: 00:32:12

That they see anti racist

as a code for anti white.

598

: 00:32:16

Because, you know, for someone growing

up in a predominantly white community,

599

: 00:32:23

and then they see all this stuff about

anti racism, it doesn't surprise me

600

: 00:32:27

that that's where their head goes.

601

: 00:32:30

Because, like, on the pure surface

level, it seems like it's all about

602

: 00:32:35

lifting up others that aren't them.

603

: 00:32:38

So, and I get why that, that

alarm goes off in their head.

604

: 00:32:42

But, I think so many younger

people now don't see it that way.

605

: 00:32:47

Which is just like, fills

me with a lot of hope.

606

: 00:32:49

Tony Tidbit: Yeah, I mean,

and that's the key, right?

607

: 00:32:50

We want every generation

to become better, right?

608

: 00:32:53

Yeah.

609

: 00:32:53

So one of the things I would recommend,

again, we don't get commission, you

610

: 00:32:57

know, we, we haven't, you know, but if

I was , you, I would definitely, you can

611

: 00:33:01

pick this book up on Amazon, pick it up,

buy it as a gift, if you don't even want

612

: 00:33:06

it, buy it as a gift as a friend, right?

613

: 00:33:08

Um, but I just think all of us listening

and hearing what other people are saying

614

: 00:33:13

across the country can only bet that it

could be only beneficial for all of us.

615

: 00:33:18

So.

616

: 00:33:18

I really appreciate JJ.

617

: 00:33:20

Thanks a lot, my friend.

618

: 00:33:21

Thank you for having me for

allowing us to come in the studio

619

: 00:33:24

to talk about, um, Michele Norris's

book, our hidden conversations.

620

: 00:33:30

And then again, I think it's now

time for the weekly spotlight

621

: 00:33:34

from The Burton Wire hosted by Dr.

622

: 00:33:37

Nsenga Burton, Dr.

623

: 00:33:39

Burton.

624

: 00:33:40

What do you have

625

: 00:33:40

for us this week?

626

: 00:33:42

Dr. Nsenga Burton: Good afternoon.

627

: 00:33:43

Thank you for joining me for

"Need to Know" with Nsenga.

628

: 00:33:47

Today I'm going to be talking to you

about, um, dominant ideologies and

629

: 00:33:52

that's ways of thinking or belief systems

around gender, specifically, um, Mr.

630

: 00:33:57

Harrison Butker's, um, comments from the

Kansas City Chiefs, um, about women's,

631

: 00:34:03

uh, about women's roles in society and

where they should be, um, and how His

632

: 00:34:09

comments, not only are archaic and out

of touch and out of date with what is

633

: 00:34:14

happening in today's world, but also

dangerous, particularly in the context

634

: 00:34:19

in which they were shared, which is at a.

635

: 00:34:21

a college graduation, um, where

people have spent a lot of time and

636

: 00:34:27

a lot of money to try and rise above,

uh, those types of limited, uh,

637

: 00:34:33

definitions, perceptions, ideas about

women's Women and our role in society.

638

: 00:34:40

Mr.

639

: 00:34:40

Butker basically said that, um, he just

wanted to go back to the good old day

640

: 00:34:44

where women knew their role, which was to

be at home and to have babies and to, you

641

: 00:34:49

know, basically take care of their man.

642

: 00:34:51

Um, and that's nice coming from

a super bowl champion, uh, who

643

: 00:34:54

makes more than $4 million a year.

644

: 00:34:56

Most people, even in the NFL are

not making $4 million a year.

645

: 00:35:00

The average salary for someone in the NFL

is between $480,000 and $600,000 a year.

646

: 00:35:06

Typically they're only going to work for

three years before they're cut, move on.

647

: 00:35:10

The likelihood of you being able to have

someone stay at home, uh, full time,

648

: 00:35:15

particularly in the economy and the

culture in which we live is slim to none.

649

: 00:35:20

This idea that somehow people can

afford in this society, um, in this

650

: 00:35:24

day and age to have someone stay home.

651

: 00:35:27

I mean, even with the cost of

childcare as a mother, uh, literally.

652

: 00:35:34

A third of my actually is more

than a third of my take home

653

: 00:35:38

pay goes to childcare period.

654

: 00:35:41

Um, my daughter's adopted.

655

: 00:35:42

Um, so I am an only parent.

656

: 00:35:44

I'm not a single parent.

657

: 00:35:45

I'm an only parent.

658

: 00:35:46

So I'm not sharing custody with anybody.

659

: 00:35:48

There's not another set of grandparents.

660

: 00:35:50

I also don't live near my parents

or most of my close family members.

661

: 00:35:54

So, um, I have to pay someone to take

care of her and it is very expensive,

662

: 00:35:59

especially if you want someone in a safe.

663

: 00:36:03

nurturing and uplifting environment.

664

: 00:36:06

All right.

665

: 00:36:07

So, which leads me back to Butker.

666

: 00:36:09

Butker's comments are dangerous

because women are more than

667

: 00:36:12

just sperm depositories for men.

668

: 00:36:15

Women have contributed more to

society than just babies, uh, and

669

: 00:36:19

taking care of men and families.

670

: 00:36:22

We're more than just objects of

affection for men and their, uh, desires.

671

: 00:36:28

Um, and we're more than just

care takers, unfortunately,

672

: 00:36:31

in our society, because many.

673

: 00:36:33

Uh, women have actually been trained

often by men and other women, uh, to

674

: 00:36:38

believe that that is their ultimate

role in society as, uh, defined by many,

675

: 00:36:43

uh, I would say spiritual scriptures.

676

: 00:36:46

Um, you know, many women are doing both,

they're working 40 hours to 60 hours a

677

: 00:36:51

week and doing all of the caretaking and

nurturing and guiding of the children,

678

: 00:36:55

um, even in, in married households.

679

: 00:36:58

So this idea that, you know,

somehow there's this kind of split.

680

: 00:37:01

Between this is what the women

do and this is what the man does.

681

: 00:37:04

I mean, it's just so out of touch

with what all the studies, all of the

682

: 00:37:08

interviews, all you have to do is look on

message boards, mom message boards, and

683

: 00:37:12

you will see just, you know, the number

of women who are saying, I'm exhausted.

684

: 00:37:17

I can't take it anymore.

685

: 00:37:18

I have to work 60 hours a week and I'm

paying half, if not all of the bills

686

: 00:37:23

and I have to take care of the kids

and I have to take care of my parents

687

: 00:37:27

and I'm taking care of his parents,

you know, all of the things, right.

688

: 00:37:31

Butker is just really out of line.

689

: 00:37:34

But what makes him a jackass is that

he did it at a college graduation.

690

: 00:37:39

And a college graduation where people

have paid good money to get an education

691

: 00:37:43

and to be uplifted and not to be demeaned

or demoralized by someone who's like,

692

: 00:37:49

yeah, I'm at a college graduation,

but you really need to stay home.

693

: 00:37:52

You girls need to be at home

having babies before you, man.

694

: 00:37:54

And, and you guys, you need to go

out there and be providers and,

695

: 00:37:57

and, and don't worry about all of

the things that fully human people

696

: 00:38:01

need from everybody, including men.

697

: 00:38:05

Perhaps he should look at those studies

of what goes on with women who grow

698

: 00:38:09

up without fathers in their life.

699

: 00:38:11

So, when I think about Butker,

you know, not only demeaning and

700

: 00:38:15

demoralizing these students who had

worked really hard to get to this day

701

: 00:38:19

and wanted to and needed to be uplifted.

702

: 00:38:21

Um, and to be celebrated for, for, for

staying the course through COVID and

703

: 00:38:26

staying the course through this tumultuous

times and, and the school shootings, all

704

: 00:38:30

the things that they have survived, the

trauma really, that they have survived,

705

: 00:38:34

um, these kinds of like very wealthy,

empowered people who have, um, microphones

706

: 00:38:41

to large groups of people, right?

707

: 00:38:43

This dude was invited.

708

: 00:38:44

To share his wisdom with graduating

seniors, people who are going to

709

: 00:38:49

the next phase of their lives.

710

: 00:38:51

When you think about the

interconnectedness between the

711

: 00:38:54

statements that he's making and the

rights that are being eroded for women.

712

: 00:39:00

Um, we have to take these statements

very seriously, you know, uh, Roe

713

: 00:39:05

versus Wade is, is, you know, all

for all intents and purposes gone.

714

: 00:39:10

Right.

715

: 00:39:10

So now it's the state issue.

716

: 00:39:11

My point is all of these

things are connected.

717

: 00:39:14

There's a woman named

Patricia Hill Collins.

718

: 00:39:16

She wrote a book.

719

: 00:39:17

Fantastic book called

Black Feminist Thought.

720

: 00:39:19

Um, and I encourage everyone to read it.

721

: 00:39:21

I call it an oldie but a goodie, but

she talks about intersectionality and

722

: 00:39:24

the ways in which these dominant systems

intersect to maintain power for the

723

: 00:39:29

status quo and the ways in which Butker's

messaging, which is misogynistic.

724

: 00:39:34

If you're not a man, you don't matter.

725

: 00:39:38

Your life is, is, has no value

unless a man says it has value.

726

: 00:39:43

Right.

727

: 00:39:44

Um, and so all of those things are

interconnected when we think about

728

: 00:39:48

issues of race, when we think about

issues of gender, when we think

729

: 00:39:50

about issues of sexual identity.

730

: 00:39:52

This is why his comments hit across

so many different categories.

731

: 00:39:57

Right, because he knows that people

who are in power knows know that these

732

: 00:40:01

type of issues are interconnected.

733

: 00:40:03

They work together.

734

: 00:40:04

You know, if you look at all the

rights, voting rights are being

735

: 00:40:07

eroded, LGBTQ rights are being eroded

1st amendment rights are being eroded

736

: 00:40:13

gender rights are being eroded.

737

: 00:40:15

These are all civil rights,

by the way, are being eroded.

738

: 00:40:19

And so what's what's next?

739

: 00:40:20

Who's next?

740

: 00:40:22

So, if you haven't gotten a memo now,

or, or, or before, you should get it.

741

: 00:40:26

Because if we don't start standing up

for ourselves, if we don't start standing

742

: 00:40:30

up for women, um, if we don't push back

when people make, I mean, just really,

743

: 00:40:36

really sad, um, and abusive statements,

um, like, um, then, you know, our

744

: 00:40:44

future is bleak and we don't want that.

745

: 00:40:47

We want a future that

is bright and that is.

746

: 00:40:49

Available to everyone.

747

: 00:40:52

Thanks a lot.

748

: 00:40:52

And the Nsenga, Dr.

749

: 00:40:53

Burton, that was awesome.

750

: 00:40:55

Look forward to chatting with you again

and hearing your points of view next week.

751

: 00:40:59

So we want to thank you for tuning

in to another episode of a black

752

: 00:41:05

executive perspective podcast, I

think is now time for Tony's Tidbit

753

: 00:41:11

is time for Tony's Tidbit, right?

754

: 00:41:14

And based on.

755

: 00:41:15

Michele Norris's book, Our Hidden

Conversations, What Americans Really

756

: 00:41:22

Think About Race and Identity.

757

: 00:41:24

Our tidbit today is by James Baldwin.

758

: 00:41:27

And James Baldwin, what he says

is not everything that is face

759

: 00:41:32

can be changed, but nothing

can be changed until it's face.

760

: 00:41:38

Right?

761

: 00:41:38

And I think that's apropos based

on the book she put together.

762

: 00:41:42

And, and this is the first

step of facing these things.

763

: 00:41:46

So I hope you enjoyed this episode, Public

Views on Race: Analysis and Discussion.

764

: 00:41:52

Um.

765

: 00:41:53

Please, our motto, a Black

Executive Perspective motto, we

766

: 00:41:57

use the acronym LESS, L E S S.

767

: 00:42:00

We're looking to decrease

racism, any sexism, right?

768

: 00:42:04

So we're asking that

everybody incorporate LESS.

769

: 00:42:07

And what is LESS?

770

: 00:42:08

Number one, you want to learn, right?

771

: 00:42:10

You want to educate yourself about

other racial groups and cultures, right?

772

: 00:42:15

And then once you learn,

E stands for empathy.

773

: 00:42:18

You should be more empathetic.

774

: 00:42:19

empathetic to your fellow

human being and colleague.

775

: 00:42:22

Then after that, S stands for share.

776

: 00:42:25

Now you want to share what you learned

to all your friends and family so

777

: 00:42:29

they can be enlightened as well.

778

: 00:42:31

And then the other S is stop.

779

: 00:42:34

You want to actively work to stop

discrimination and foster inclusivity.

780

: 00:42:38

So what does that mean?

781

: 00:42:39

You had the Thanksgiving table and

grandma says something, you say, no

782

: 00:42:43

grandma, we can't say that, right?

783

: 00:42:45

You stop it, right?

784

: 00:42:46

So if everyone does this,

we'll have a Build a better

785

: 00:42:50

and a more understanding world.

786

: 00:42:51

So incorporate this call to

action L E less L E S S less.

787

: 00:42:57

And let's do it every day.

788

: 00:42:59

And guess what?

789

: 00:42:59

We'll see the change that we want to see.

790

: 00:43:02

So don't miss our next exact next

episode on a black executive perspective.

791

: 00:43:06

You're going to love it and go,

uh, please give us a rating.

792

: 00:43:10

Go to wherever you're listening

to, uh, our show, whatever

793

: 00:43:13

podcast platform on YouTube.

794

: 00:43:16

Give us a rating.

795

: 00:43:16

Give us your thoughts on today's

episode public views on race Analysis

796

: 00:43:22

and discussion you can follow a black

executive perspective podcast On wherever

797

: 00:43:28

you get your podcast and you can follow

us on our socials on linkedin x youtube

798

: 00:43:33

tiktok and instagram at ablackexec

for the university of new haven For

799

: 00:43:42

allowing a black executive perspective

to be here You Our, our, uh, producer,

800

: 00:43:46

JJ, want to thank you a lot, JJ.

801

: 00:43:48

JJ Dionisio: Thank you

802

: 00:43:49

so much for having me.

803

: 00:43:50

This is a great time.

804

: 00:43:50

Tony Tidbit: Appreciate it.

805

: 00:43:51

I want to thank you again for joining.

806

: 00:43:53

We're out.

807

: 00:43:54

We love you.

808

: 00:43:55

And we just talked about

809

: 00:44:00

BEP Narrator: a

810

: 00:44:01

black executive perspective.