ep 116. Exploring Interracial Marriage: Different Worlds, One Love

:: 00:00

a black executive perspective whether you're aware 

of it or not it's a topic that is often avoided

:: 00:06

we'll discuss race and how it plays a factor and 

how we didn't even talk about this topic cuz we

:: 00:12

were afraid a black executive perspective that's 

where I struggle like I don't know like how am

:: 00:20

I how am I supposed to navigate this without 

diminishing her without calling attention to

:: 00:26

her in a negative way but resolving the issue 

and and hopefully making some progress so that

:: 00:33

there's a lesson learned here welcome to a 

black executive perspective podcast a safe

:: 00:38

space where we discuss all matters related to 

race especially race in Corporate America I'm

:: 00:44

your host Tony tidbit in July 12th 1967 the US 

Supreme Court unanimously interracial marriage

:: 00:53

legal in the United States prior to the ruling 

interracial marriage was still against the law in

:: 01:00

16 States if you believe that or not only 1% of 

newlyweds were interracial couples at that time

:: 01:08

today almost 20% of all Newly Weds differ from 

one another when it comes to race or ethnicity

:: 01:16

today 94% of Americans approve of interracial 

% in the: 1960

:: 01:27

made tremendous strides in marriage have the 

same strides been made in couples navigating

:: 01:33

And discussing their differences regarding race 

in their marriage Brian Stern welcome to a black

:: 01:41

executive perspective podcast no thank you for 

having me I'm excited to be here buddy we're so

:: 01:46

glad that you came this is awesome this is a very 

um I don't want to say unique topic but it is a

:: 01:53

topic that is very important you know especially 

based on where we were in: 1967

:: 02:00

it was illegal to uh for interracial marriage in 

that state and as I talked about 3% of that time

:: 02:07

approved of interracial marriage now 94% 20% 

of all newlyweds of new of Newly Weds are now

:: 02:14

interracial couples so we've made tremendous 

strides from an external standpoint however

:: 02:20

and you're here to help us navigate in terms of 

internally um you know how the couples uh work

:: 02:27

together in terms of communicating about their 

racial differences so exactly I'm very excited

:: 02:32

for you to be here for us to to dive into this 

but before we get started tell us a little bit

:: 02:37

about yourself what do you do where do you live at 

sure so uh I'm a career ownership coach um I help

:: 02:44

people that are primarily in career transition 

maybe looking for something a little bit different

:: 02:49

um I do specialize in helping people navigate the 

world of entering entrepreneurship um and this is

:: 02:55

a recent change for me but I'm having a lot of 

fun doing it um I do live down on the uh the

:: 03:00

Jersey Shore uh with my wife as you mentioned in 

an interracial marriage and I do have a daughter

:: 03:06

uh 12 years old um that uh we share a lovely home 

with so in all transparency uh Brian and I have

:: 03:12

known each other for 23 years and we met in the 

advertising industry and uh you've thus have made

:: 03:19

a transition over to you know uh coaching future 

entrepreneurs so what made you you know want to

:: 03:27

make that change in your life at this time frame 

I think a lot of it was uh getting to a point in

:: 03:33

my career where I realized I was turning 50 years 

old and still didn't know what I wanted to do when

:: 03:37

I grew up um and because of that I actually went 

and got a coach myself and in figuring out what I

:: 03:44

wanted to do I actually just enjoyed the process 

of the figuring out piece so instead of moving on

:: 03:50

to something else I actually asked my coach can I 

just do what you do I love helping people figure

:: 03:56

out what they want to do because I've enjoyed 

the process myself so much that's how I fell

:: 04:01

into it and well that is awesome man and and so 

dovet telling on that tell us a little bit about

:: 04:06

why you wanted to appear on this podcast and talk 

about this subject yeah so uh I got to be honest

:: 04:13

with you I'm I'm a loyal listener and I and the 

thought of being on the podcast was actually kind

:: 04:17

of intimidating um I just listening to the the the 

like the expertise the credentials of the people

:: 04:24

you've had on and I'm just a middle-aged white guy 

from New Jersey you know so um it is a little bit

:: 04:30

intimidating but I I have to say like I've I've 

gotten so much value out of listening and I love

:: 04:36

the Mantra making uncomfortable conversations 

comfortable because there's a conversation I've

:: 04:42

wanted to have for over 15 years and I've tried 

to have it and I've just not been successful I've

:: 04:48

stumbled through it a couple of times it's just 

you know something that I've struggled with and

:: 04:54

knowing that you've created this safe space um 

I'm here for ulterior motives I'm here to learn

:: 04:59

how to have this conversation I'm here to get your 

perspective on how to have this conversation about

:: 05:06

being in an interracial relationship and how to 

navigate it and the issues that we face I know

:: 05:11

what the issues are and I have a perspective on 

it I can't say that I'm an expert can't say I have

:: 05:16

it figured out that's why I wanted to be here to 

talk about it out yeah I mean that is awesome and

:: 05:22

I gotta say this to you too right I mean number 

one I'm you know I'm glad that you're a loyal

:: 05:27

listener to a black executive perspective podcast 

that is great I'm glad you like what we're putting

:: 05:32

out there um here's the kicker though and look 

I I'm not an expert either but I can share with

:: 05:39

you my experience um in terms of what I dealt 

with when it comes to interracial marriage and

:: 05:45

some of my friends and family that are in racial 

uh uh uh uh relationships um but you you're kind

:: 05:51

of lucking out a little bit I got to say that 

right because you know you get to come on the

:: 05:55

platform and and and talk about this and and ask 

me question and if I didn't have this podcast I

:: 06:01

would be charging your ass all right just to be 

clear all right you there would be a feet all

:: 06:06

right but guess what we have the platform that's 

what this is about it's for us to be able to learn

:: 06:13

and share and hear other people's stories so more 

importantly I am uh ecstatic that you you know are

:: 06:22

willing to come on this is not an easy thing to 

do to come on and and talk and share your story

:: 06:27

to you know who knows thousands maybe millions 

of individuals who may hear this right I know

:: 06:32

we're not at Millions uh in terms of subscribers 

yet but you know I'm I'm being optimistic yeah

:: 06:38

so so so that is awesome so you ready to have 

this conversation my friend I've been waiting

:: 06:43

for 15 plus years to have this conversation okay 

let's talk about it so when you say you've been

:: 06:48

waiting for 15 plus years to have a conversation 

tell us give us some background in terms of what

:: 06:55

you mean specifically so I've been married for 

15 plus years uh met my wife obviously before

:: 07:01

that and honestly race was never really something 

that was top of mind for me growing up it just I

:: 07:10

I would have said if you had asked me when I was 

a kid how much does race impact your life I would

:: 07:13

have said it doesn't impact it at all right my 

perspective has changed dramatically I realize

:: 07:19

now it impacts 100% of my life and it always has 

and it always so hold on right there real quick

:: 07:22

right so you you just got finish saying hey if you 

I would asked you 15 years ago and how this race

:: 07:28

impact your life you have said it doesn't impact 

my life why would you have said that at that time

:: 07:32

frame I think it's because I I took for granted 

that it wasn't something that impacted me because

:: 07:41

I felt free to go almost anywhere I'd like to go 

I felt like I could um play in any Arena that I

:: 07:50

wanted to play in um now I know the reason I felt 

that way is because of my race right so now I know

:: 07:57

that that that was actually a privilege that I had 

um and it just didn't really occur to me until you

:: 08:02

become more sensitive to it and you become more 

sensitive to it by being exposed to more diversity

:: 08:07

I mean I grew up in a very homogeneous rural 

area in New Jersey so until you get exposed to

:: 08:13

those things and you start to realize and become 

more sensitive to it you know you don't recognize

:: 08:18

that race does impact you no matter who you are 

no matter where you are so and and you're 100%

:: 08:23

correct what changed though in terms of now I see 

the world totally different than you did you know

:: 08:30

prior to 15 years ago I mean I did start to see a 

little bit of a difference when I went to college

:: 08:35

naturally you get exposed to to to more people to 

more environments to more experiences but I will

:: 08:41

say I became extraordinarily sensitive to it when 

I met my my wife right because you start to notice

:: 08:48

things that impact you on a on a deeper level than 

would if you just see them out in the wild so to

:: 08:55

speak things like walking into a store and know 

noticing how the the the uh the retail reps in the

:: 09:03

store don't talk to your wife or the way that they 

do talk to her right and then the way that that

:: 09:09

I'm used to them talking to me or treating me and 

when you see the disparity there and you get hyper

:: 09:15

sensitive to it um it's it's it kind of disrupts 

your entire way of thinking your entire reality

:: 09:24

gets adjusted by that I mean we've had incidents 

in stores like I mentioned we had had an incident

:: 09:29

with um once my child was born you have different 

difference experiences I think a big turning point

:: 09:35

for me was when I realized how much is this going 

to impact my child so my my wife took my daughter

:: 09:41

to a daycare to just explore it see if this would 

be a good fit for us and as soon as she walked in

:: 09:49

they told her that she couldn't afford it they 

told her that this wasn't the right environment

:: 09:54

for her the child and she came home upset and she 

she knew at this time this is a racial issue it

:: 10:01

was clearly racial cuz she looked around the 

room it was entirely white you know there was

:: 10:06

no diversity there and you know my my inclination 

is I'm driving right back to this place and I'm

:: 10:12

going to raise hell I'm going to go give him a 

piece of my mind but my daugh my wife her her

:: 10:18

her initial reaction was just let it go don't 

don't worry about it just let it go we'll just

:: 10:24

move on and that's been the the the the the course 

of action in almost every incident that I've that

:: 10:32

I've experienced with her whether it's in a store 

and somebody I I feel is not treating her right

:: 10:37

or anytime I I I get a sense that something might 

be related to race I want to you know stand at the

:: 10:43

top of the mountain and start screaming my lungs 

out you know this isn't right um her reaction is

:: 10:49

always don't worry about it just let it slide 

it's not a big deal or I don't think this has

:: 10:54

anything to do with race I don't think it does 

or you see it differently you you definitely

:: 10:58

think it hasn't and I am I'm hyper sensitive to 

it now and I always have been and and it's been

:: 11:03

exaggerated since I've had a child because that's 

where you know you of course you know you don't

:: 11:08

want your child to have to face these things so 

my wife is from the Philippines she was born and

:: 11:12

raised there she came here after she's completed 

high school and was this the first time you ever

:: 11:17

dated somebody outside of your race yes seriously 

yes you you hesitated a little bit like you you

:: 11:24

well I I I had but it was really like you know a 

one first date kind of one date thing and then you

:: 11:29

know but this was the first relationship okay all 

right and then you know growing up in South Jersey

:: 11:34

did you ever see yourself being with somebody 

outside of your race at that time frame I don't

:: 11:41

know that I ever considered it either way it just 

it it just wasn't part of the thought process to

:: 11:47

me it it when I met her it really wasn't part 

of my thought process even when I met her it

:: 11:53

really wasn't like it just wasn't something I 

had considered that she is a different culture

:: 11:57

A different race it's just she's a cool person 

I'd like to hang out with so it really wasn't

:: 12:02

an issue for me there I think meeting her family 

um you know I wanted to see how I'd be perceived

:: 12:09

as an outsider similar with my family I I was 

curious to see how she'd be perceived and both

:: 12:14

of our families were very welcoming we're very 

thankful for that and I think that's part of what

:: 12:19

made me so hyper sensitive to when I'd see things 

externally because if my family could could could

:: 12:25

approve of her and love her I don't understand 

why everybody else has right let me ask you this

:: 12:30

did um did you guys ever talk about race at all 

before you got married did you talk about the

:: 12:38

differences did you you just said hey I wanted to 

meet her parents and wonder if there was going to

:: 12:42

be an issue and was there I mean did any of that 

come up did you guys talk about any differences

:: 12:48

how the world you would have to deal with the 

world did you any of that stuff come up I'll

:: 12:52

tell you the one time something came up I met her 

stepfather he was an African-American man Alabama

:: 12:59

so her mother had come here uh before Ruby had 

come here her mother had been here and had gotten

:: 13:03

remarried and so that added another Dynamic he 

was actually the one person who brought it up

:: 13:09

what did he say what's this white boy doing in 

my he said what what's this white boy doing in

:: 13:15

my apartment was he joking he and I were great or 

was he really serious it was hard to tell with him

:: 13:22

it was hard to tell with him but I think there 

was something behind that but it was interesting

:: 13:26

because he himself was in an interracial marriage 

being African-American his wife was Filipina but

:: 13:31

uh you know that he it took a while for me to 

win him over U but uh but in general it was very

:: 13:38

accepting and there really wasn't a a tremendous 

strain or tension in the fact that we were coming

:: 13:45

from different races okay so that's great there's 

yeah everybody's you know singing kumaya they all

:: 13:50

for it back to my question though did you two 

do you and Ruby ever when you're dating I mean

:: 13:58

I would imagine imine before you got married you 

went to a restaurant or you went to a store so

:: 14:03

I would imagine and you tell us did you see these 

type things back then before you even got married

:: 14:08

did you guys ever talk about absolutely you know 

how it is that she the world that she deals with

:: 14:14

versus the world that you deal with I I tried 

many times and this is what I wanted to talk

:: 14:19

to you about in part because the conversation is 

extremely labored right we tried when I would see

:: 14:28

something that she not getting serviced in a in a 

store or or you know somebody would kind of push

:: 14:33

her out of the way in the subway station right 

like when I see little things like that or you

:: 14:38

know I'd have to jump out and call the taxi right 

like there are little things like that um and I'd

:: 14:44

want to talk about it but the response I would 

constantly get is don't worry about it don't make

:: 14:50

a big deal about it just move on like let's just 

yeah go go go somewhere else let's do something

:: 14:57

else there really wasn't the ability to talk about 

it like I I mentioned in my you know when we were

:: 15:02

first talking about why I want to come on the 

podcast I tried I stumbled you know through it

:: 15:08

and it was difficult it's a hard conversation 

to have and the problem is we could talk about

:: 15:13

anything we can talk about finances we can talk 

about our kid we can talk about vacations we're

:: 15:19

equal footing when we talk about all those things 

this is the one area where we are not equal the

:: 15:26

the the way that she walks through the world is 

always going to be different than the way I walk

:: 15:30

through the world and because I can I see these 

things now and I'm hyp sensitive to them I can

:: 15:37

sympathize with her I cannot empathize and that's 

a big issue and because of that I struggle having

:: 15:45

those conversations so you know you you beat me to 

the punch and you but you answered the question I

:: 15:50

was going to ask you right away like do you guys 

talk about other stuff and you just said hey we're

:: 15:53

Partners in everything but you know finances our 

our child's education vacation just regular how's

:: 16:00

your day you guys talk about everything but when 

it comes to race it doesn't she's just always very

:: 16:06

you know no big deal let's leave it alone um so 

let let me ask you this how about your daughter

:: 16:13

tell us to tell us a little bit about the dynamic 

there does Race come up her based on her being

:: 16:18

biracial do is it a different Dynamic is does that 

conversation come up so with her it comes up often

:: 16:28

and she's open to talk about it so my daughter's 

interesting in that she can fit in almost anywhere

:: 16:34

I've had people walk up to her and start speaking 

Spanish I've had people walk up to her and start

:: 16:38

speaking Arabic you know she she can fit in to 

to almost any culture she has this that you know

:: 16:45

this deep Olive complexion she's got this this 

really like I don't know how you would say it

:: 16:51

but it's just like this face of like you know 

everybody that's in every commercial now where

:: 16:55

you can't tell what race they are right that's 

the kind of face she has right so for her she is

:: 17:03

just as hyp sensitive as I am and she's willing 

to talk about it and she's willing to make a big

:: 17:09

deal about it which is so interesting because she 

takes after her mother in so many ways except for

:: 17:15

this one way in that she will you know want want 

to take the mantle and she'll stand up for people

:: 17:21

when she sees things she'll want to talk about 

it she'll she'll want to call people out um it's

:: 17:28

just a very different Dynamic and I don't know 

how much of that is because she can like walk

:: 17:32

between Both Worlds or is it a generational thing 

you know that's what I wonder you know so have you

:: 17:39

you so backing up a little bit you said when you 

met her father and first thing he said is who's

:: 17:46

this white dude why he in my house all right so 

for him to say that I would imagine race came up

:: 17:54

at some point in their relationship um just for 

him to say that right right he's her father he's

:: 18:00

black his her Mo you know her mother is Filipino 

I would I would imagine that came up so I mean

:: 18:08

have you chatted with her parents in terms of this 

issue and that she won't speak on it and cuz what

:: 18:15

I'm thinking is there an issue that happened when 

she was a kid that you know could been traumatic

:: 18:21

and and she just don't want to talk about it 

and so when this comes up she's just like I

:: 18:25

don't even want to deal with it so I'm just trying 

to I'm just I'm in Pro here any conversation with

:: 18:30

the family on any history anything like that 

so I never really got in depth with her her

:: 18:35

stepfather on it he was very standoffish and stuff 

and he didn't even meet her until like got so yeah

:: 18:42

he don't know you know but her mother I've had 

conversations with and she interestingly she was

:: 18:48

a school teacher in Manhattan for about 30 years 

um and so she dealt with the Dynamics of you know

:: 18:55

a very diverse classroom and had a lot of those 

conversations over time she had actually even

:: 19:01

been called in front of the board of education 

for a student claiming that she was a racist at

:: 19:05

one time and so she brought me her son-in-law 

she brought her her husband who happened to be

:: 19:10

African-American and we went and sat with her and 

they were like who's this and she's like that's

:: 19:14

my family right so I've had some conversations 

with her about it um and she's very much in that

:: 19:23

similar vein of I you know I'll talk to you about 

it but she's not going to really give me what she

:: 19:31

really feels or what she really believes or or the 

depth of of of what her experience is because it's

:: 19:37

very much a um we just deal with it so it's not a 

big deal and to me it is a big deal and I I this

:: 19:46

is why I wanted to talk to you too because I know 

that you you you're in an interracial marriage as

:: 19:51

well and I'm curious I'm so curious if your wife 

brings stuff up the way I bring stuff up with my

:: 19:57

wife does she bring stuff up and how do you react 

to it yeah you know so that's a good one right so

:: 20:05

so I answer your question specifically yes was it 

that way in the beginning no okay so so and the

:: 20:14

reason I'm I'm asking the questions I can I can 

relate to your wife a little bit I think a lot of

:: 20:19

people who are listening to uh uh this this this 

episode who are people of color um they can relate

:: 20:29

a little bit in terms of you know the um not 

just let it go right just let it go you know what

:: 20:37

forget about it and you know here's the kicker 

well there's a lot you I don't know if we got

:: 20:44

enough time double A is this an hour episode or 

we is this a 247 you know what I'm saying is this

:: 20:50

uh you know what I'm saying this is one of those 

bin series and stuff that nature right we'll see

:: 20:54

what people's attention span is nowadays cuz I can 

take a long long time right so there's a lot right

:: 21:00

there there there's historical issues there's 

self-esteem issues there's uh there's there

:: 21:08

there there there are you cultural issues there 

there's a lot to it right I for me I I can speak

:: 21:14

specifically for me for me it was a self-esteem 

issue okay and so when things like that happened

:: 21:26

to me I didn't say a whole lot I didn't like 

now you kidding me I I you know don't even try

:: 21:35

it right but yeah there was times when I was a kid 

was called every and this wasn't and just be clear

:: 21:41

this wasn't by white kids this was by black kids I 

was called every you know black name under the sun

:: 21:48

um because of colorism okay because colorism in 

terms of you know groups every group I don't care

:: 21:54

if you're Hispanic you're you're you're you're 

you're Cuban you're you're African-American you're

:: 22:00

Italian uh darker people are are are are are done 

and lighter people are better they're smarter

:: 22:07

they're so that that that is for real right and 

I dealt with that and then more importantly you

:: 22:11

know my I had a different father than my my um 

my siblings I was the oldest my father I was dark

:: 22:19

skinned and my my sister my brother and my two 

sisters were light-skinned okay and so even with

:: 22:26

them when I get in fights with them remember one 

time my sister called me a black blah blah blah

:: 22:30

my mother heard and she went off on her and don't 

you ever do that so so so so just when you hear

:: 22:35

that and you're a young kid it be for me it was 

a self-esteem issue okay and then as I got older

:: 22:42

I was just I hate to say it just trying to stay 

out of the way I mean I didn't because you know if

:: 22:49

somebody did something or whatever I didn't even 

want to deal with the confrontation where does

:: 22:54

that go how am I by me being uh uh uh combative 

you know how do that make that situation better

:: 23:02

I should have been but at that time frame I wasn't 

trying to make no wavs all right so so there's a

:: 23:08

lot to it in terms of you know why people just 

say Let It Go why people um don't really push

:: 23:17

back and and there's things I'm not even thinking 

about I remember when you know I go to Martha's

:: 23:22

Vineyard every year right for vacation and we had 

brought my my uh my wife's sister and her husband

:: 23:28

they came and stayed a week with us and we were 

walking around and then my nephew um who who uh

:: 23:35

my my sister's son he came we we flew him up and 

he's like 6'5 um and he and he was like 18 at the

:: 23:43

time last year in high school and he's tall black 

guy right and then uh he was holding hand to hand

:: 23:50

with my my my wife's um my nephew from my wife's 

side who's Lily White right and we're walking

:: 23:58

down Martha we walking in edger toown I think it 

was we're walking around and we're having a good

:: 24:02

time and I'm just minding my business and then 

later that day her husband said to me he was

:: 24:09

no it wasn't even later that day I think it was 

it was that around not I think it was around the

:: 24:13

same time frame he was like I don't get it how do 

you take what these people are looking at you the

:: 24:18

way you know he said something like how do you and 

and I didn't even he because he was like where you

:: 24:23

are he was like I couldn't take this look how they 

looking at you how do you take it and I was just

:: 24:29

like what are you talking about because I was at a 

point where I don't even pay attention to that no

:: 24:35

longer it's so prevalent it's been so part of who 

I am everywhere I've been at and especially since

:: 24:43

you know I married my wife or we started dating 

you you just become uh what's the word I want to

:: 24:49

use um I'm not even sensitive it just becomes like 

a callous you don't even think about it because if

:: 24:55

I had to think about that all the time Brian I 

could not be who I am I couldn't Prosper cuz I

:: 25:04

would always think everything is they're doing 

this to me because I'm black they're they're and

:: 25:11

nobody wants to be in that your wife doesn't 

want to be in that nobody that's an area and

:: 25:17

I know I got friends of mine people I know who 

are talented who could be anything but because

:: 25:23

that is their mindset they don't go far because 

now every the leaf blew down my street cuz I was

:: 25:29

black all right so so and again I'm I'm I'm I'm 

I'm I'm embellishing a little bit but what I'm

:: 25:35

saying is that has a lot to do with it right and 

and so back to your question um when when me and

:: 25:43

my wife who I met when I worked up in Boston we 

worked at the same company okay and she was our

:: 25:49

marketing person I was a sales account executive 

selling television advertising um and it was it

:: 25:55

wasn't love at first sight we just we started 

working together and then we you know started

:: 25:59

all as an office we all hung out and we went 

drinking and you know then her and I started

:: 26:05

chatting and the next year you know we went to 

the movies and you know then it became you know

:: 26:09

we started you know taking it seriously um and so 

I'll be honest with you so for me I was like cuz

:: 26:16

my this is my second marriage my first marriage 

I was married to a black lady all right loved her

:: 26:20

to death we loved her just didn't work out right 

so did I ever say that I would marry um somebody

:: 26:26

outside of my raise no but I wasn't opposed to it 

my mother always was you know she always you know

:: 26:32

taught us about you know whoever loves you who all 

I care about is they take care of you I don't care

:: 26:37

what color they are I don't care where they come 

from long as they love you for you and they take

:: 26:41

care of you that's all that matters right so that 

was always our mindset however so but when me and

:: 26:46

my my wife got together you know and she grew 

up in a small town outside of Boston I'm from

:: 26:51

Detroit Michigan you know I was like wow this 

is great you know and I was I was thinking oh

:: 26:57

she must know what black people go through okay 

because she's willing to to to to to date a black

:: 27:04

guy right no she ain't had no clue okay she a had 

no clue right that was me being naive that was me

:: 27:11

being like oh this must be right and so you know 

we had our own issues in the beginning right she

:: 27:18

noticed a few things when we first started dating 

going to restaurants and stuff to that nature she

:: 27:24

would see my face change when I'm waiting for 

the waiter you know I'm like I said when I was

:: 27:28

a kid and I was younger I really didn't push 

back or same thing and then finally a button

:: 27:33

went off and I was like no I'm not doing that no 

longer so you know I I hold people accountable I

:: 27:39

call things out as I see them um when it comes 

to disrespecting me in my face if I'm walking

:: 27:46

down the street and people looking at me fny I 

don't care about that that's your problem right

:: 27:50

but when I go to the store or I'm in a restaurant 

or you know people just like just SHO sh me away

:: 27:58

or don't give me the respect that I deserve as a 

human being then I'm going to call him out right

:: 28:03

so so but in the beginning she saw a couple of 

things um but the big thing happened is when we

:: 28:09

had kids and then she saw how our kids the na the 

world they had to navigate how the school system

:: 28:18

you know same things that you were talking about 

with your um your daughter right and then so my

:: 28:24

wife became more sensitive she it wasn't that she 

wasn't sensitive she was sensitive to overt racism

:: 28:32

like the disrespect stuff in restaurants but she 

wasn't you know uh um sensitive to all the issues

:: 28:39

and all the microaggressions and all the misnomers 

and stereotypes and all that type stuff she just

:: 28:45

wasn't so so that was stuff and to be honest that 

we sit down and have a conversation and I say well

:: 28:51

look you know you can't do this you know or this 

is no I read I can give you a million examples I

:: 28:57

remember I don't know what case this was I can't 

remember what it was but it was a police brutality

:: 29:04

case uh the police said they did this and the 

black dude or was a woman I can't remember exactly

:: 29:11

what it was and they said no that didn't happened 

okay and then my wife I mean we were watching the

:: 29:16

news and she was like why would the police make 

something up okay that because because the bottom

:: 29:23

line she's like where she grew up the police 

they're your friend right they they're they're

:: 29:29

they're there to protect you right where I grew 

up that ain't the case all right and that so so

:: 29:35

right then this is my point here she was like 

why would the police lie and I'm like because

:: 29:42

they lie because here's a a person of color 

and they treated this person any way and they

:: 29:47

know that this person who's telling them who's 

who's basically uh making an accusation a lot

:: 29:53

of people won't believe that person because they 

are the police right but I and and I had a million

:: 29:58

experiences with this so is a lot of people of 

color who's listening to this friends and stuff

:: 30:02

that nature but this is my point so there was 

still even though we fell in love even though

:: 30:07

we had kids even all that there still was uh what 

you was is it unconscious and conscious issues um

:: 30:17

because of where she grew up what she saw her 

experiences and what I grew where I grew up and

:: 30:25

what I saw in my experiences and to be fair going 

back to your situation with your wife I didn't sit

:: 30:32

her down and say let me tell you everything that's 

going on I I didn't even want to talk about it I

:: 30:38

didn't why and that's what I struggle with want 

to talk about right because it's just one you

:: 30:44

use the word I I think I'm I'm sorry to interrupt 

but you know you use the word callous that you've

:: 30:52

developed this over time so when you're a newborn 

baby and you're skin is Super Fresh right and

:: 30:58

Hyper sensitive to everything well that's what 

I feel like I was like when I first got together

:: 31:04

with my wife I don't have the callus and and your 

wife didn't have the callus either right so when

:: 31:11

these things happen we are not equipped in any way 

to to to to process it in in the right ways or the

:: 31:20

wrong ways I don't know but we're not equipped to 

process it in any way right so what happens is I I

:: 31:26

get hyper sensitive I want to talk about it and I 

want to I want to do something and take some sort

:: 31:30

of action right and there's this imbalance because 

my wife has the callus and wants to just you know

:: 31:39

let it slide or move past it because she doesn't 

want to focus on it I don't know how to get to

:: 31:44

that point where we are on the same page and 

how to manage these things and it's a particular

:: 31:49

concern as you mentioned once you have a child 

once there are children in the mix because do

:: 31:55

you want to let these things slide what kind of 

example is that setting for my kid right my kid

:: 32:01

wants to talk about it but my wife tells her don't 

worry about it and I'm like no no what happened we

:: 32:06

got to we got to fix this who can I talk to who do 

who do I got to go smack on the butt right like so

:: 32:12

we're coming at it from a very different way I 

feel like after 15 years I'm starting to learn

:: 32:17

how to process it I'm starting to I wouldn't call 

them calluses but my Skin's getting a little bit

:: 32:23

tougher but I still don't know the right way 

to address these situations right if we are in

:: 32:31

a store and my wife is waiting to be helped and 

three other people who've come in after her are

:: 32:37

getting helped before her what's my role right 

what I mean what what would you expect of an

:: 32:45

ally in that situation should they come forward 

and say hey why aren't you helping my wife and

:: 32:52

bringing up that maybe it's racial or is it just 

yeah I I don't know the right thing to do here

:: 32:58

because if my daughter's there do I want to make 

it a different conversation or I just want to you

:: 33:03

know wait patiently for her to be so so so again 

dou way is this a B series because that's I I can

:: 33:12

go a million ways I can go a million ways with 

your question right um's nod and say no it's not

:: 33:18

a business Series so we got to stay on point okay 

so so here's here's the thing right number one so

:: 33:25

let's be clear here and I'm going to be clear and 

I know you love your wife and I'm going to use me

:: 33:30

in this example and I said earlier I didn't say a 

lot that was a mistake nothing changes unless you

:: 33:38

hold people accountable okay you have to speak 

out on it that doesn't mean you got to bring a

:: 33:43

club back and like or you know but you have to 

speak on it you have to okay you you you have to

:: 33:50

do that right so and let me give you an example 

give you a and again I I just told you earlier

:: 33:55

I just let it go cuz it was more of a self-esteem 

issue okay but then once I got past that you know

:: 34:01

when I moved out here to Connecticut um I used 

to drive to Detroit uh from Connecticut all the

:: 34:08

time visit family it was I was doing business 

out there so it was just a regular thing I was

:: 34:14

driving I would you know at a certain way I go 

84 80 I go through Pennsylvania so I remember

:: 34:20

this one time I was going through Pennsylvania I 

had to pull over and get some gas small town in

:: 34:26

Pennsylvania I don't remember and as I pulled up 

and this was back in the '90s uh early '90s where

:: 34:33

you had to go inside to pay for the gas okay so 

I remember uh I pulled up and as I pulled up this

:: 34:41

white guy on this Harley motorcycle he pulled up 

the same time okay and big dude I mean and he had

:: 34:48

the U was was what's the Hell's Angels right he 

had the Hell's Angels uh jacket on you know tats

:: 34:56

whole n yards I'm like look at this dude right so 

I'm like automatically I'm on my Spidey senses are

:: 35:01

going off right so I I was like look let me get 

the gas and get up out of here right so I walk in

:: 35:08

he walked in right behind me in the store we get 

to the counter there's a lady right in front of me

:: 35:14

I'm right behind the lady and then this big dude 

is right behind me okay the lady gets whatever

:: 35:21

she wants she leaves I step up to the counter 

the dude looks around look I'm I'm getting away

:: 35:29

from the mic so cuz I'm getting hyped let me stay 

in the mic cuz you're not going to hear me cuz I

:: 35:33

still get mad at this right the Dude Looks around 

me and says to the big motorcycle dude can I help

:: 35:40

you and the Motorcycle Dude this I mean this 

dude was like 65 200 he he started to take a

:: 35:48

step up and said yeah and I was like hold on I I 

mean immediately I was like hold on man I looked

:: 35:54

at this dude I was like I was next and the dude 

was like oh I didn't see you I was like what do

:: 36:00

you mean you didn't see me I was standing right 

here there's only three of us in the store I you

:: 36:04

can see how I buddy I was so mad right and then 

I looked at this dude for he was like trying to

:: 36:10

back up a little bit and then I looked at him 

from like 30 minutes 30 seconds I was Furious

:: 36:16

right so I said he said what do you want I was 

like fill it up on whatever number it was right

:: 36:22

then immediately after I started comaling down 

if I got this big dude this big har motorcycle

:: 36:27

dude was behind me I was like oh man now this is 

going to be so I turned around I said sorry about

:: 36:32

that man you know what he said he said no man you 

were right okay so you got to call it out you have

:: 36:41

to call it out right he didn't see me you kidding 

me here okay so so so but I had to get up to that

:: 36:51

level of being able to hold people accountable 

same thing with my wife okay my wife now is you

:: 36:59

know it's funny because in the beginning she had 

no clue you know uh there was some difficulties

:: 37:05

just be clear here because she grew up different 

and it's not her fault she grew up in a way her

:: 37:10

experience was just different than mine okay 

it was naive for me to think oh she likes me

:: 37:14

so she'll be okay with all the black experence no 

because what she heard and what she saw and her

:: 37:20

friends and family and what they said or didn't 

say about black people people of color you know

:: 37:26

it it just didn't fit that narrative however now 

she's the white Angela Davis okay and I I I I mean

:: 37:34

that I'm not even flat out my wife is she's 

like you Brian she is very sensitive she sees

:: 37:42

everything right I'll tell you another quick story 

and this is Martha venard thing okay we this was

:: 37:48

back our daughters were we went we go to Martha Z 

every year so this was our daughters maybe three

:: 37:54

or four and typically when the the the the ferry 

we take the ferry home it stops off in Woods Hole

:: 38:01

and then you drive and there used to be this IHOP 

um you know and we were like we going we we call

:: 38:08

6 o'clock in the morning FY we're like we'll just 

get breakfast at IHOP so we drive to IHOP it's on

:: 38:13

the way home right we get there place is packed 

we put our names in it tooks a while they look we

:: 38:21

finally get in we sit at the table right we're 

hungry the kids are hungry and they just don't

:: 38:27

come by to ask us for anything how can we help you 

hey just so you know it's really crowded we'll be

:: 38:33

with you short nothing all right they just kept 

walking past us serving everybody else my wife and

:: 38:41

and again she sees it she sees it right and I'm 

getting mad and to be honest I'm trying to stay

:: 38:49

calm because I know me but she's getting becoming 

Furious right and then all of a sudden she uh the

:: 38:56

waitress was walking past her and she grabbed the 

waitress arm and said are you going to effing come

:: 39:01

and serve us what's the issue and the waitress 

was like you know trying to play oh I'm sorry I'm

:: 39:06

sorry and then the waitress went into the kitchen 

my wife followed her in the kitchen and then start

:: 39:13

saying where's the manager at I want her fired all 

I mean everybody in the whole IHOP is looking and

:: 39:20

and and she's like I want her fired I want her 

fired so I'm trying to calm her down I'm like

:: 39:24

Gail Gail calm down she's like look don't take 

up for them you know what I'm saying and I'm like

:: 39:29

I'm not taking up for them I'm just trying to calm 

you down right hold them see when you see it when

:: 39:37

you see it and you're not used to that you become 

Furious and this is what people of color deal with

:: 39:48

all the time so now here's here's my my thoughts 

on that because I've had this same experience and

:: 39:56

i' I don't get I didn't go into the kitchen but 

similarly in a in a restaurant you know we we got

:: 40:02

served but then they never came to check on us you 

know we're eating spicy food they wouldn't give

:: 40:06

us water like it was one of those things where I 

was like what's going on here like I'm dying but

:: 40:11

uh you know finally I just grabbed somebody and 

I was like where can I go to get my own water for

:: 40:16

for me and my family right like I'll go get it 

since you're obviously too busy for us right and

:: 40:21

I clearly expressed that I thought this was like 

you know a racial thing now my wife was furious

:: 40:27

with me for doing that right for calling attention 

to it now so my perspective is I'm standing up and

:: 40:34

trying to do the right thing and her perspective 

is that I somehow called more attention to her

:: 40:42

and my daughter unwanted attention because of 

the situation so in my in my view I thought I

:: 40:49

was doing the right thing by standing up for but 

in her perspective I was in some way I don't I

:: 40:56

don't know if this is the right word but like 

diminishing her in a way right because I was

:: 41:03

calling attention to this inequity and making a 

bigger deal out of it than my wife wanted me to

:: 41:08

make so in that situation I mean your wife's 

going into the kitchen and demanding someone

:: 41:13

be fired like she's doing that with all the right 

intentions as I would and I have but what is your

:: 41:19

experience and that situation when your spouse and 

like me for my my wife when we're going and trying

:: 41:27

to you know right or wrong and with all the right 

intentions but we may be doing it in a way that's

:: 41:34

insensitive to your experience and I don't that's 

where I struggle like I don't know like how am

:: 41:40

I how am I supposed to navigate this without 

diminishing her without calling attention to

:: 41:46

her in a negative way but resolving the issue and 

hopefully making some progress so that there's a

:: 41:53

lesson learned here yeah I mean so look my friend 

and and again can't speak for your wife right I

:: 41:58

don't know if there's something that happened you 

know when she was a kid and this is just a a a

:: 42:08

you know uh a PS demo I don't know right there's 

something there right so and and if she doesn't

:: 42:15

communicate that way to you it's hard for you to 

your point to be able to to know the right thing

:: 42:22

to do but here's the kicker this is what I think 

and I I wrote this down when you were asking this

:: 42:27

question I think you have to do you and you 

got to let her be her you can't make somebody

:: 42:36

who doesn't want to deal with something deal with 

it and and who knows maybe it's uncomfortableness

:: 42:43

maybe to your point maybe she sees it as a a a a 

diminishing her as a human being to bring it up

:: 42:50

because you know she wants to walk her head with 

dignity and no matter what somebody does that's

:: 42:55

not going to stop her from you know seeing herself 

as being you know a full human being with all the

:: 43:01

respect so and it could be that I I I don't know 

right however I think as you being her husband you

:: 43:09

know that you know you ever read the book um the 

five love languages buddy you should pick that up

:: 43:17

it's a good book yeah sounds like I should right 

and uh you know and just to give you an example of

:: 43:24

the book maybe some body in the audience read it 

I would recommend that every couple read it I re

:: 43:30

be honest with you I would recommend that uh even 

if you're not in a relationship you read it okay

:: 43:36

because every human being has a different love 

language okay everyone and N nine times out of 10

:: 43:44

we struggle is because we don't understand their 

love language and they don't understand our love

:: 43:49

language right and in the book there's this five 

love languages and just to give you an example you

:: 43:54

know this couple goes to therapy and um you know 

the the therapist says what's the issue and the

:: 44:02

wife says he don't love me and my man was like 

that's a lie I tell her I love her all the time

:: 44:11

right I mean from from a a a bird's eye view you 

be like well the dude's telling me he love her so

:: 44:18

maybe she she ain't listening or whatever case 

beat no that wasn't the case her love language

:: 44:23

is not by affirmations her love language is by 

what he does for her he can tell her all day

:: 44:31

long he love her but he ain't taking the garbage 

out okay he not doing this he not that's her love

:: 44:38

that language by him doing stuff like that says 

he loves me okay and then some other people you

:: 44:46

know are you know affir Masia the dude never says 

oh she don't never say she love me how do I know

:: 44:51

she love me well I cook for you I do this That 

Ain't My love language I want to hear you love

:: 44:56

me right I mean so so that's to be honest nine 

times of 10 those are big issues that we don't

:: 45:01

even know because we don't understand each other's 

love language like I'm a physical touch anybody

:: 45:07

know me I'm a touchy Huggy person okay flat out 

okay you ain't hugging me you ain't you don't

:: 45:15

love me okay that's just how I am right my wife 

is time okay spending time okay that's how I show

:: 45:23

that I love her by spending time so everybody's 

got different languages okay so I would recommend

:: 45:28

you pick that up because that would be just in 

general okay however back to the point at the

:: 45:35

end of the day you can't make somebody want to 

chat about something um and they don't want to I

:: 45:44

always believe there's a root issue to everything 

always all in every circumstance there's a roote

:: 45:52

issue also I would add it's a cultural thing 

too you know bu even though people of color

:: 45:58

you know we're all different cultures and to my 

knowledge you know I Asian friends and stuff very

:: 46:04

very Reserve culturally generally speaking would 

you would you agree right so like you know you

:: 46:11

know the the the I I would say you know the 

African American Experience or you know the

:: 46:15

black experience here even the Latino latinx 

experience you know we're we've been fighting

:: 46:20

here you know like we you know up put your hands 

up we scrap like know we're generally Scrappers

:: 46:29

right like you know civil rights you know we have 

these examples of just people just just not going

:: 46:34

to take it anymore you know and then there's a lot 

of that in our culture in American culture so I I

:: 46:39

would say there something there's something I you 

know maybe there's something to that you know just

:: 46:43

I'm not a psychologist but that just my two cents 

and and and so double way thanks for that and

:: 46:48

that's an excellent point and that's where I was 

talking about a little bit about you know at the

:: 46:53

end of the day she may feel like this is beneath 

her okay and you know what that's fine but she

:: 47:00

has her husband who's her protector all right she 

has her husband who's making sure that she's not

:: 47:08

disrespected when he's around she has her husband 

that's going to speak on their behalf as a family

:: 47:15

as well as his daughter that is awesome and if you 

were tell the the the the key is I mean there's

:: 47:21

a lot of couples where somebody ain't saying you 

know not even speaking up and and and their wife

:: 47:26

or husband is being disrespected they say nothing 

right so so it's it's a tough thing man so back to

:: 47:33

doublea's point you know the it could be cultural 

it's really what is the there's a root issue right

:: 47:41

and let's just say if it was cultural let's let's 

go by what da says let's say it's a cultural issue

:: 47:46

how would you how would you deal with that how 

would would things change from your standpoint

:: 47:52

I don't know that they would I think that I still 

am going to because the way that I react to these

:: 47:59

things I haven't developed that callous yet right 

I'm still hyp sensitive to it and because of my

:: 48:05

daughter I'm also hyper sensitive and it's really 

difficult for me to to watch and and see these

:: 48:10

things and react in the way that may be more 

appropriate for her culturally for example if

:: 48:15

she is more reserved which she is I admit that her 

culture they're very reserved they're not ones to

:: 48:21

to to cause a stir and and push back um in the 

face of inequity at any great length they will

:: 48:28

behind closed doors but not in the moment right um 

so I don't know that it would change dramatically

:: 48:36

the way that I would act in a situation or the way 

that I would um want to address it with her either

:: 48:44

because I haven't processed there I haven't had 

enough time to process the world that she walks

:: 48:51

through and I don't know I ever will because I 

I'm white you you know and it's not something

:: 48:56

I'm going to be able to to again empathize with 

experiencing those can I so I just want to push

:: 49:03

back a little bit on what you just got finished 

saying right I I think you can empathize right I

:: 49:09

I really do because you see it you see the world 

that she deals with your daughter deals with and

:: 49:18

it's a different world than than you've dealt with 

so you can you in other words I'm not saying that

:: 49:24

you're going to know everything of course not so 

I hear your point but that's part of the change

:: 49:29

that's part of people learning is to be able to 

empathize is to be able to put themselves in the

:: 49:36

other person's uh shoes or see their own uh their 

point of view and like wow I never understood

:: 49:42

that wow now I got a better understanding so I 

think the empathy is there go ahead yeah I had

:: 49:49

a buddy of mine who um um he's from he's from the 

Connecticut from you know from Daran and he lived

:: 49:55

in Hawaii you know you know white affluent young 

man um and you know lived out there was living his

:: 50:02

you know living the dream you know was out there 

with his brother Ren in a house and he told me

:: 50:06

stories of how you know he was discriminated 

against you know by the locals because he was

:: 50:11

white you know he his house got robbed several 

times because he was white you know and they told

:: 50:18

him that was the reason so you know he ended up 

realiz you know that he he learned it that way I

:: 50:24

mean it wasn't fun but that's how he got empathy 

you know he told me he's like wow you know I

:: 50:31

experienced it personally you know as a as a white 

person like I was discriminated against because it

:: 50:35

happens right you know so sometimes until it 

happens to you you know what I mean or or you

:: 50:42

really see you know like I think you know until 

it happens to you you won't really you know nobody

:: 50:47

really has that ability to always have you know 

get into other people's you know shoes and feel

:: 50:52

that empathy it's not it's not an easy thing to 

do you and speaking and and even taking it to the

:: 50:57

next level this is where we as a as a uh as human 

beings this is where we struggle is because when

:: 51:05

and again I'm going to I'm going to I'll use me as 

an example right let's say I met my wife and let's

:: 51:11

say I wasn't there wasn't a self-esteem issues or 

I didn't you know I was more you know proactive

:: 51:17

and said you know these things happened and these 

always watch when we go to this restaurant watch

:: 51:22

and see what happen watch watch watch watch oh you 

know what this because of this this and that well

:: 51:27

guess what because she hasn't experienced that 

there is no empathy so she's they could be looking

:: 51:34

back saying he's making excuses okay because this 

stuff ain't happening you know and that's what

:: 51:40

that's real people they're today like oh they're 

always complaining or they're always that ain't

:: 51:46

true or this there it's no it's not a cultural 

issue when it comes to people of color in the

:: 51:51

police department is a few bad apples right so at 

the end of the day there is you can't have empathy

:: 51:56

like that because you haven't experienced it right 

so now people just making it up or they trying to

:: 52:02

get a buck or you know and that unfortunately 

that's a narrative that people push out to say

:: 52:09

this stuff is all people crying okay and so you 

do have empathy my friend because you're taking

:: 52:16

up for your family you see it right and you're 

like I can't believe this and it's nothing wrong

:: 52:24

with being hyper sensitive to it and to be fair 

if more people were hyper sensitive to this this

:: 52:34

podcast wouldn't even exist right there'll be 

more uh uh uh uh people of color and uh in in

:: 52:41

seite positions there'll be anything you can name 

it would be better because people was sensitive to

:: 52:50

it because they experienced it and theyve seen it 

for themselves what's your thoughts on that I mean

:: 52:57

I I agree I I I think I'm struggling with the word 

empathy tell tell us why I still think of I still

:: 53:04

feel like because I haven't experienced what dou 

was saying about his friend going to why I haven't

:: 53:10

had that level of of discriminatory action against 

me um so I still struggle with with with really

:: 53:18

believing that I can empathize I still think I'm 

more on that that sympathize I'm on that I will

:: 53:24

say I am on the the far end of the spectrum now in 

terms of awareness which is I think that's big for

:: 53:30

me because growing up that just it just wasn't an 

issue that I that I was ever talked about I mean

:: 53:36

my family was very open to everybody and you 

know we we you know my my parents have always

:: 53:41

been very open-minded and we were you know taught 

that everybody's equal but when you grow up in a

:: 53:46

homogeneous neighborhood you don't really see 

the reasons why that's so important to believe

:: 53:51

those things um so I still struggle with that 

that I haven't really felt the Thousand Paper

:: 53:59

cuts that you may have gone through that my wife 

may have gone through right like I just i' I've

:: 54:06

I've seen a few Beast thingss here and there right 

and that's enough to get me riled up but the the

:: 54:12

Thousand Paper Cuts over time that you develop the 

calluses like that's where I struggle with with

:: 54:18

believing that I can truly empath yeah so look 

we may just have a different um definition of

:: 54:24

the empathy because you will never to be honest my 

friend you'll never get the million Cuts okay it

:: 54:30

just ain't going to happen right so I I I think 

and and and you consider your wife you and her

:: 54:37

as one right when your wife hurts when your wife 

hurts do you hurt so there you go absolutely and

:: 54:44

I think in this instance what I what I believe 

is that many times I feel like I'm hurting more

:: 54:49

than she is and and and I don't know I can't say 

it is I can't say it's not but maybe maybe maybe

:: 54:55

that could be and but that's part of the empathy 

part you are hurting you are those experiences

:: 55:01

do hurt you because they're hurting your wife 

they're hurting your daughter right so but I

:: 55:07

I I hear your point if you're look at the end of 

the day you're not it's just unless to like double

:: 55:12

AES gave example unless you move somewhere and 

you're the minority and you're getting stomped

:: 55:18

on and and and and and and and and talked about 

and and and disparaged over and over again then

:: 55:25

absolutely absolutely cuz ultimately you know the 

empathy has to come from you know acknowledging

:: 55:30

that hey this is fundamentally wrong exact it's 

real number one it's real all right and like you

:: 55:37

said it's fund so that and you see that right now 

and you've seen it let's be fair I'm backing up

:: 55:43

because you said 15 years okay since you guys been 

together right and you've been taking up for her

:: 55:51

in these situations for 15 years okay I mean buddy 

I you know it may not be the same cuts that I go

:: 55:58

through but those are Cuts because if your wife 

was white you wouldn't been dealing with those

:: 56:04

cuts okay so so I think you definitely empathize 

and I think I just think my friend number one I

:: 56:12

want to thank you for coming on and sharing this 

story I think that's I take it back I know there's

:: 56:21

a ton of people who black white uh Native American 

Indian uh Hispanic Uh Russian Jewish that are in

:: 56:34

interracial interracial relationships and they 

still struggle they they have a united front but

:: 56:40

they don't communicate together not some of them 

do right some of them I'm not gonna say everybody

:: 56:47

but for me and my wife it was a struggle until 

until we were able to get past that I I didn't

:: 56:52

want to have that conversation because I got to 

now educ I got to have this conversation with you

:: 56:57

why I got to go out in the world and have the 

conversation too you know I want to come home

:: 57:01

and just chill and you know you know we arguing 

about the grocery money okay and I got to talk

:: 57:07

about this right I don't want to deal with that 

right but at some point it has to and look I put

:: 57:12

this way I think as a as a you said earlier that 

you guys talk about everything finances everything

:: 57:17

which is great I think you got to talk about this 

too and you got to and and and and and to double

:: 57:24

a point you could cultural issues whatever but I 

think a good healthy partner um they would talk

:: 57:32

about these things the differences what this 

person sees and what the other person doesn't

:: 57:37

see right and it's not about well you don't get 

it or it's just more of like you said awareness

:: 57:43

right and eventually eventually you know the 

other partner I'm just being honest I and maybe

:: 57:51

I'm being naive but I think eventually the other 

partner will we'll see especially when you have

:: 57:55

kids man when you have kids it changes the whole 

dynamic changes the whole dynamic right and so now

:: 58:05

does me and my wife talk about race all the time 

no right she talk to be honest she talks about

:: 58:11

it more than I do it's like you right we go you 

know I you know they they chose her because of you

:: 58:18

know blah blah blah I just listen okay and I'm not 

disagreeing with her but I just listen because you

:: 58:25

know she she now is running with the Mano so it's 

all but when when you're when your spouses can be

:: 58:33

on the same page when it comes to something like 

this it makes life a lot better and listen I've

:: 58:39

chatted with friends of mine who are now going 

through some hard times from a you know um divorce

:: 58:46

um because of the issue that you brought up Brian 

is that one is uh African-American one is Hispanic

:: 58:54

and uh one person sees this and the other person 

doesn't see it and they don't want to the the the

:: 59:00

uh the the husband don't want to talk about it 

it and and nothing nothing can get solved that

:: 59:06

way right so I think it's very important that at 

least you try that's what you've been trying to

:: 59:11

do and but net net you got to do you and you got 

to let your wife your partner be them that's fair

:: 59:19

and I I I just want to thank you for having me 

on because I do think this was actually inform

:: 59:25

and actually I I will use the term therapeutic for 

me because I do think this I've been waiting for

:: 59:31

15 years to have this conversation actually 

longer than 15 years I've known my wife for

:: 59:35

about 18 years so I've been waiting for for that 

long to have a good honest conversation about

:: 59:40

this so I I absolutely appreciate you and I just 

thank you for having me on to have if I had have

:: 59:45

known that we could have started a black executive 

perspective 15 years ago I would matter of fact by

:: 59:50

now we would been you know D way and I would be 

you know we'd be talking we would have invented

:: 59:55

I mean flat out right but all jokes aside my man 

uh love you a lot I more important look this is

:: 00:01

not easy to do especially come on a podcast and 

talk about something and so I really appreciate

:: 00:06

you sharing we want to have you back uh talk about 

some other topics um but final thoughts that you

:: 00:12

have you want to share with the audience my friend 

well um I think couple things number one in taking

:: 00:18

your advice you know it doesn't mean we have to 

talk about it all the time but as as part of this

:: 00:25

this husband and wife team when my wife's ready 

when she's able when she's willing I'm going to

:: 00:30

be there for her to talk about it in any way shap 

or form I think that's critical important and and

:: 00:35

to to be the listener not necessarily to like try 

and you know solve everything but just be there to

:: 00:41

listen uh to get a better understanding because 

I do think you're right I probably do empathize

:: 00:46

a little more than I than I realize but I want 

to be there more completely um the other thing

:: 00:53

I I I think that's really important to me is 

this is going to sound like a weird analogy

:: 00:58

maybe but there's a reason that TVs aren't black 

and white anymore right there's a reason that we

:: 01:05

evolve to see things in color right movies are in 

color because they're better they're better and I

:: 01:10

think just recognizing that there is a world out 

there that's not just black and white and that

:: 01:15

everyone has that different experience and the 

different View and and being hyp sensitive to

:: 01:20

it while it can be painful at times honestly it's 

just made me a better person it's definitely made

:: 01:25

me a better husband and and I hope a much better 

father as well that is awesome my friend that is

:: 01:30

great that's great stuff that you sharing here um 

how can a black executive perspective help you Bri

:: 01:36

well uh Shameless self-plug um I can be found at 

b. eSource coach.com um I love talking to people

:: 01:46

about where they are in their careers and how I 

might be able to help them if they're looking to

:: 01:49

make a change um I love talking to people from all 

shapes forums careers any any any perspective that

:: 01:57

they come from CU it's all about an education 

for me as well well that's awesome so so if you

:: 02:01

guys are looking to change careers you want to 

do something different reach out to my man Brian

:: 02:06

Stern at the email excuse me at the website he 

just announced thank you for sharing this story

:: 02:12

I is is is is really uh you know something that 

really touched my heart and I'm pretty sure you're

:: 02:17

going to you're going to touch a lot of other 

people's uh heart as well I hope you enjoy uh

:: 02:21

today's episode on a black executive perspective 

podcast interracial marriage the conscious and

:: 02:27

unconscious ways we relate to each other and the 

world around us so you heard from Brian Stern he's

:: 02:33

been with his wife for 15 years uh grew up uh 

homogenous area all of a sudden now he's in an

:: 02:39

interracial relationship very uh hyper sensitive 

see how things are being how his wife is being

:: 02:46

disrespected treated just in her daily walk and 

you know loves it takes up for her but also at

:: 02:52

the same time she does want to communicate about 

it and then obviously you know they're not the

:: 02:58

only ones that do that so A couple quick little 

thoughts I have um you know look at the end of the

:: 03:03

day we all grow at different time frames we don't 

know what um somebody else goes through why they

:: 03:11

do why they don't do so nine times out a 10 if a 

person doesn't want to talk about something uh you

:: 03:17

got to let them just be themselves right and it 

doesn't stop you from doing the things that you

:: 03:22

feel is the right thing to do for your family um 

seeds all seeds grow at different times and um a

:: 03:30

lot of times we're planting seeds and if they're 

in Fertile ground at some point they'll grow so we

:: 03:36

got to recognize that number two it is important 

if you can for interracial couples to talk about

:: 03:44

you know their racial differences when they're 

together yes you guys came together the whole

:: 03:50

world was against you it's you versus the world 

you going to have kids you showed that you know

:: 03:54

we could be together but there are differences 

there are issues not everybody's educated on

:: 03:59

the same things that you know like I said my 

wife wasn't educated on everything that I've

:: 04:02

been through um so it's important at some point 

that you guys people can sit down and have these

:: 04:08

conversations and then N Net push come to shove 

you take care of your family and the one thing the

:: 04:16

only way we're going to change things is we have 

to hold people accountable we can't brush stuff

:: 04:21

under the rug like I've did for years and other 

people do and just let it go no you have to hold

:: 04:27

them accountable you have to call it out right 

you don't have to beat nobody up you don't have

:: 04:31

to attack anybody but you have to call it out okay 

because the more you call it out the more things

:: 04:37

will change so that's a a very very important 

thing to do so you know what time it is it's time

:: 04:44

for Tony's tidbit it's time for Tony's tidbit all 

right so based on what we talked about today with

:: 04:50

Brian today's tidbit is by David M world and it 

goes a great marriage is not when a perfect couple

:: 04:58

comes together it's when a imperfect couple learns 

to enjoy their differences okay and that's what we

:: 05:07

spoke to Brian today about as well so again I 

hope you enjoyed I'm glad you tuned in to this

:: 05:14

episode of a black executive perspective podcast 

please come to our website at a black executive

:: 05:18

perspective.com sign up for updates you can follow 

a black executive perspective podcast on wherever

:: 05:25

you get your podcast and also follow us on our 

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:: 05:32

Spotify LinkedIn at Tony tidbit be for my guest 

Brian Stern my executive producer doublea I'm Tony

:: 05:44

tidbit we talked about it I love you a lot and 

we're out thank you for tuning in to this episode

:: 05:50

of Tony tidbit a black executive perspective 

and for joining in today's conversation with

:: 05:58

every story We Share every conversation we Foster 

and every barrier we address we can ignite the

:: 06:05

Sparks that bring about lasting change and this 

carries us one step closer to transforming the

:: 06:11

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:: 06:17

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:: 06:25

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:: 06:30

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