The Truth About DEI Challenges with Kevin Clayton, EVP of Cleveland Cavaliers.

Kevin Clayton: 00:00:00

But when you hear the term DEI with the Cleveland Cavaliers.

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Here's what it means.

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It has, it defines our fans, it defines

our marketplace, it defines our viewing

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population, it defines our, our, our,

our virtual interaction with our fans.

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It is not identified as black or

white, but it's looked upon as here is

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a marketplace And if on any of those

fronts on the marketplace, if we haven't

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developed that relationship with a

group of people, regardless of who they

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are, we have a business opportunity.

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Tony Tidbit: We'll discuss race and how it

plays a factor and how we didn't even talk

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about this topic because we were afraid.

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BEP Narrator: A Black

Executive Perspective.

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Tony Tidbit: Welcome to a Black Executive

Perspective podcast, a safe space where

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we talk about all things about race,

especially race in corporate America.

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I'm your host, Tony Tidbit.

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And as we always do, we want to

throw a quick shout out to our

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partner CODE M Magazine, whose

mission is saving the Black family

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by first saving the Black man.

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So please make sure you go

and check them out at CodeM.

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So today we're going to delve

into the growing challenges facing

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diversity, equity, and inclusion

initiatives across various sectors.

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As these essential efforts face increasing

scrutiny and pushback, understanding

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their nuances and distinctions from

the broader social impact and equity

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initiatives become more critical.

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Joining us is Kevin Clayton, Senior

Vice President and Head of Social Impact

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and Equity at the Cleveland Cavaliers.

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He will provide his expert insight.

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And to the landscape, Kevin will

also explain the key differences

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between DEI programs and social

impact and equity initiatives.

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Using real world examples from his

extensive experience, he will discuss

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how DEI efforts often, often internal

and organizational focus are sometimes

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perceived as divisive and how they differ

from social impact and equity strategies,

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which aim for systemic changes.

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Benefiting broader communities.

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Let me tell you a little bit about Kevin.

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Kevin Clayton is the senior vice president

and the head of social impact and equity

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for rock entertainment group, which

includes the Cleveland Cavaliers, Rocket

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Mortgage, field house, Cleveland Charge,

Cleveland Monsters, and the Cavs are re

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legion gaming club under his leadership.

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Kevin oversees community

relations engagement, DEI, and the

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Cavaliers Community Foundation.

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Kevin previously has executive positions

at Bond Secures MercyHealth, United

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States Tennis Association, Russell

Athletic, American Cancer Society,

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and was the managing partner of Jump

Ball, LLC entity he found in: 2012

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Kevin started his career with Procter

and Gamble where he was a successful

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sales and marketing executive.

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He is currently the chair of the

greater Cleveland urban league and

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black sports professional board member

of the United way of greater Cleveland

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shaker schools, foundation, Cleveland

city club, and serves as the advisor to

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other local and national organizations.

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Kevin is a native of Cleveland, Ohio.

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He has four daughters, three

grandchildren, and an alum of North

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Carolina Central University in Wilmington

College, Ohio, where he was a member

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and the captain of the basketball team.

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He's also a proud member of Kappa

Alpha Phi Fraternity Incorporated.

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Kevin Clayton, welcome to a Black

Executive Perspective Podcast, my brother.

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Kevin Clayton: Hey, Tony, it's

a pleasure being with you, man.

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Thank you for that.

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Nice introduction and.

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When you read my bio, it just reminded

me how long I've been at this game, man.

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Tony Tidbit: Well, not only how long

you've been at it, but how accomplished

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that you've been at it as well.

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I was waiting for the line that

says they gave him land and title.

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So, uh, but maybe you'll get that from

where you at rock entertainment right now.

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So more importantly, my friend,

we're excited that you're here.

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We're definitely going to talk

about a topic that, um, as

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you know, is in the headlines.

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Um, it's interesting and

we'll dive into it shortly.

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Four years ago, it was, it was very,

it was getting a lot of accolades.

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And now four years later, it's,

uh, at the bottom of the bottom.

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So I definitely want to hear your

perspective, but before we get started,

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tell us a little bit of like, where

are you currently residing and a little

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bit about your family, my friend.

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Kevin Clayton: Yeah.

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So, so Tony, I've had a chance to

live all across the United States.

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I'm right now in Cleveland,

Ohio, where I grew up.

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And, you know, went to,

went to school here.

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Uh, and then when I left right after,

actually right after college, um, is

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when I kind of left the Cleveland area

and I've lived all across the country.

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And after 33 years came back to Cleveland

for this opportunity with the Cavaliers.

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And I've lived in such places, such as

Atlanta, such as Atlanta, such as, uh,

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LA, New York, Charleston, Cincinnati,

twice, back to Cleveland once.

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Orlando, Jacksonville, all over

the country, and I've had a chance.

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I had no plan to come back to

Cleveland when you think about

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some of the places I've lived.

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They're kind of nice warm weather areas

and really had a lot going on socially.

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But I got this call from, um, really,

it was really more of a spiritual call.

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Of coming back home and I

grew up playing basketball.

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I grew up cheering for the Cavs.

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So to be able to start their DEI program

kind of in, in, um, actually: 2019

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was a

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great opportunity for me to, to really do

some good work back in my home community.

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Um, so this was a surprise

that I'd come back home.

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But I haven't, you know, this is where my

roots are and I couldn't think of a better

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place to be other than Cleveland, Ohio.

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Tony Tidbit: Well, my brother, I

mean, number one, thank you for that.

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Number two, I love it that you've

been around a lot of places because

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obviously it broadens our horizons.

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Number three, coming back home is great.

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But then I got to say, number four,

you remind me of LeBron James.

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Okay.

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When he left all of a sudden,

he felt like it was spiritual.

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He had to come back to

fulfill his mission.

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All right.

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Which he did.

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So I'm pretty sure that you're

on your mission and you're

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making it happen as well.

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Kevin Clayton: Uh, Tony, I, I could

not have written the script any

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better than what it is right now.

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And as we have the conversation, it'll

be really clear to you and, and and

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our viewers as to what that looks like.

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But as I said, my plan was

not to come back to Ohio.

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I was in Atlanta and have been there

for a number of years, and I kind of,

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wherever I am, I like to call it home.

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Right.

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And you know, when I was in

Orlando, I was very much a big

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part of the landscape there.

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When I was in Atlanta, I was

part of the landscape, New York,

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Charleston, because you never know.

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to end up.

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And people ask me now, well, Kevin, are

you going to, is Cleveland your last stop?

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I don't know.

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I'm on a spiritual journey that

has led, that I've followed the

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work to be done and wherever I am,

as I said, I just, I call it home.

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So for me being able to come back

home to Cleveland at a time when the

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whole social justice, social impact,

diversity, that whole industry blew

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up around the murder of George Floyd.

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I know that this is the place in which

I was supposed to be, and also know

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kind of what my calling is and the

work that I'm supposed to get done.

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Tony Tidbit: Buddy, I love it.

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I love it.

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And speaking of that, so look, because

I'm chomping at the bit to hear from you.

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I know you chomping at

the bit to talk about it.

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So let's go ahead and just get into it.

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Are you ready to talk

about it, my brother?

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I'm ready to get into it, brother.

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Let's talk about it.

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So why don't we do this?

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Let's start here because you have,

um, you know, and I'm going to

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ask you some questions about DEI

and social impact, but you have a

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major role with rock entertainment.

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So why don't you tell us a little

bit about your role and your

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duties in terms of what you do in

terms of Social Equity and Impact.

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Kevin Clayton: Yeah.

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So when I started with the, with the cabs

organization, so rock entertainment group.

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Is, is the kind of overarching umbrella

for all of the sports and entertainment

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organizations that we, we have and

understand that, you know, Rocket

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Entertainment Group and the Cavs are

part of Dan Gilbert's portfolio, but

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over a hundred companies of which

is kind of led by Rocket Mortgage

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and StockX and Quicken loans and

bedrock development and what have you.

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So with that, as I said,

I came back here in: 2019

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And it was to start the DE&I team.

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So if you think back to 2019 and the

NBA, and this is when I tell people

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this story, they're kind of like,

wow, I can't even believe that.

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So in 2019 when I came back here

to start our DE&I team, there's

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147 professional sports teams.

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Tony, if you think about NBA, if you

think about MLB, NFL, National Hockey

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League, and then if you think, also add

to that MLS, which is a major league

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soccer out of the 147 sports teams.

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In just 2019, I was the fourth C

suite level person to lead a DEI team.

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So now there were people that might

have been a coordinator over HR and

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something else and something else, or

they had multiple titles, but at the C

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suite level, Sitting in the boardroom.

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I was the fourth and the thing is all

four of those sports teams were in

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the NBA and None of the other teams

across any other league Had them now

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at the top of the like the MLB has had

somebody leading the league When I was

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it when I was in the USTA from a tennis

standpoint, I led that for the USTA But

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at the team level, it hadn't happened.

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So my role was to open up the, the

DEI department, and I've always

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thought about this as a very strategic

business format or from a strategic

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format, because that's what this is.

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DEI is a strategy to

get you to an end game.

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So, in doing that over a couple of years

and then understand in: 2019

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was in the, in the spring of 2019, a

year later, George Floyd is murdered.

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Then you go through the next 6, 7 months.

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The pandemic hits.

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So I come on board to do

the work of DEI had no clue.

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How could I?

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That the world was going to turn upside

down and we were going to have the

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duality of two pandemics, if you will.

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One from a social and racial justice.

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The other from what Penn, what,

uh, what happened with COVID.

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So in managing through all of that,

uh, and then we got on the backside

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of kind of COVID and we all came back,

my work was elevated to, and I had a

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chance to have some input with my CEO

around what my title was going to be.

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And I saw, and I mean, God has blessed

me with the vision to kind of see

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where the puck is going, if you will,

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which is

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a hockey term.

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And we have a hockey team as well.

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And it's not looking at where

you are, but where are we going?

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So I saw, and I could just see by the,

kind of the, the, the, the headwinds.

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That the work of DEI

was beginning to shift.

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And now I'm going back two years ago.

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So my title is Senior Vice President

of Social Impact and Equity.

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Those are outcomes, Tony,

of the work that I do.

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That's the outcome of DEI.

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So I talked about the

DEI being a strategy.

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If we do the work of, of developing

and managing and leading and

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executing our DEI plan, we're

Then we will have social impact.

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We will also create internal

and external equity.

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What happens is that this work is

perceived to be the end all it's not

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the end all it's it's really a road

to get us from point A to point B and

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therefore my work is now DEI falls

underneath me everything we do from a

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community standpoint government affairs.

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What we do with our legends, and those

are all the past greats and players with

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the Cavs, and then also our foundation.

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So I have the philanthropic

part, government affairs, social

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impact, or social, yeah, social

impact, and also the work of DEI.

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All of that work is

geared towards one thing.

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And that is how do we make tangible,

trackable, measurable impact

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in our community and within our

footprint of where our fans are.

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Tony Tidbit: So buddy, thank you for that.

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And I appreciate the, um, you backing

up and, and, and painting that picture.

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I got a couple of questions out of this.

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So number one, um, 2019,

147 sports teams, four.

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Individuals for positions in

terms of DEI or social impact.

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What case may be, why was that?

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Kevin Clayton: Yeah.

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And to be clear, it was, it was DEI,

social impact, no social impact.

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It not even been, not even

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Tony Tidbit: coming.

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So, so, so why is that?

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Yep.

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So here's

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Kevin Clayton: what, here's

why, why that was the case.

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And if you think about professional

sports, what happened over the years

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is that people look at professional

sports and said, Oh, we don't need to

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do anything from a diversity standpoint.

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Because look, look at

all the black athletes.

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Look at all the women that play.

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Look, I mean, you even got LGBTQ players.

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You, you have athletes, you have

all these folks that typically

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are not in the mainstream.

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So why do we need diversity?

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Well, what they didn't understand was

one diversity is not just representation

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of individuals Two what they didn't

understand was that's the athletes on

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the floor That has nothing to do with

the business behind the scenes So if

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you then kind of go behind the the the

curtain of the wizard of oz and you

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pull back that curtain What you will see

is that professional sports look just

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like every other corporate Corporation

in this country predominantly led

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by white males, you had a handful of

women, a handful of people of color.

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So just from a representation standpoint,

people did not associate who was on the

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court to who was running the business.

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And that's no different than when I

worked at P&G, who was running the

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business had nothing to do with our

marketplace and, and what, who, who

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our brands were associated with.

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So that's why I've always connected

this work to what is the mission

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or the business objective of the

organization so that I can kind of

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dismantle the whole conversation around,

Oh, this is about black and white.

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We got enough black athletes.

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So therefore, why do we need diversity?

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So that's why that was the case.

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Then George Floyd is murdered.

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America now raises, I mean, the, the,

the, the ugly scar of racism is now

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seen by the whole world in this country.

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And sports teams, including the NBA

are like, Hey, we need to make sure

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that all our teams have, or sports

leagues, including the NBA, wanted

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to make sure all of our teams had

representation of DE& I leaders.

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That happened across all the sports.

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It happened across this entire country.

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Well, for us, it wasn't about

reacting to something that happened

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from a societal standpoint.

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For us, it was just a matter

of, this is part of our strategy

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that we implemented in 2019.

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It wasn't in reaction to, and our

other three teams in the league that

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actually had DEI officers were now

in a position to really get ahead of

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this because it's just how we operate.

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It's how our league operated,

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Tony Tidbit: right?

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Right.

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So that makes sense.

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So it's amazing because I love the

way you, you know, you weave the,

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the situation with, um, the sports

leagues and corporate America.

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They were really the same, right?

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Set up, but because they were more, I

don't even say more because the primary

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primary product on the field was.

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You know, people of color, they're

like, we're all squared away.

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All right.

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But at the end of the day,

there, there, there was not.

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And it's the same setup.

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So I'm glad you, you,

you spoke about that.

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You also talked about the two pandemics.

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You said, um, which I

never heard that before.

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So I want you to, you said, cause I

was like, okay, there's something else

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happened, but you spoke very well to it.

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So I want you to dive in further.

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You said one pandemic was the

racial awakening, social justice.

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And the other one was the pandemic.

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Talk a little bit about the two and

how it affected what was going on.

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Kevin Clayton: Yeah.

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So the term pandemic, most of us,

first time we were ever exposed

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to that term happened from COVID.

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Well, COVID was a disease.

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COVID was a, a illness.

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COVID was a, a, a, a physical symptom

that, that impacted all of America.

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It shut down our country.

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Tony Tidbit: Right.

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Kevin Clayton: Well, we all were

sitting at home watching George

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Floyd being killed, being murdered.

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So, Tony, you and I have

been around long enough.

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George Floyd was not the first black man

to be killed by law enforcement officers.

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It just happened to be the

first one in May of: 2020

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Tony Tidbit: Right.

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That we happened

305

: 00:18:15

Kevin Clayton: to see.

306

: 00:18:16

Tony Tidbit: On TV.

307

: 00:18:17

Kevin Clayton: On TV.

308

: 00:18:18

So seeing it over and over

again, it had the same impact.

309

: 00:18:22

Go back to that, that time of all of

the rallies, all of the protests all

310

: 00:18:28

across the globe that were happening.

311

: 00:18:32

Didn't we see those same

pictures with COVID?

312

: 00:18:36

All across the globe, how

many people were being killed?

313

: 00:18:39

City had a record.

314

: 00:18:40

They had a number.

315

: 00:18:41

Yeah, exactly.

316

: 00:18:42

So, so it, it, it had the

same impact of, wait a minute.

317

: 00:18:46

There's been a, an alarm had

been sound and that alarm was.

318

: 00:18:51

Unfortunately, racism in America

actually exists, which was an awakening

319

: 00:18:56

as other countries began to say,

yes, and it's happened here, but the

320

: 00:19:00

finger was pointed at at our country,

and therefore, if you think about

321

: 00:19:05

kind of where the epicenter was.

322

: 00:19:08

It was here

323

: 00:19:09

from

324

: 00:19:10

that one pandemic of racism,

325

: 00:19:13

the

326

: 00:19:13

epicenter of COVID, you can point your

finger, but people were identifying.

327

: 00:19:18

It was over in China.

328

: 00:19:19

It was someplace else,

but it hit our country.

329

: 00:19:22

And you recall New York was the

epicenter of how many people were

330

: 00:19:26

dying and how it shut down that same

visual you saw all across the country.

331

: 00:19:34

And it happened to be the visual.

332

: 00:19:35

The epicenter was in Minneapolis.

333

: 00:19:37

Where George Floyd was killed.

334

: 00:19:39

So the impact was the same.

335

: 00:19:41

Our attention was captured

by this ugly disease.

336

: 00:19:46

Racism and COVID.

337

: 00:19:49

Tony Tidbit: Right, right.

338

: 00:19:50

Well, thank you for breaking that down.

339

: 00:19:52

Let me ask you this in

terms of racial awakening.

340

: 00:19:55

Let's back up a little bit.

341

: 00:19:57

Growing up in Cleveland and I don't

know when, when you left, even

342

: 00:20:00

though you're back now, when did

you have your first like racial

343

: 00:20:04

awakening as, as a human being?

344

: 00:20:08

Kevin Clayton: Yeah.

345

: 00:20:08

So I grew up in, in the city of Cleveland

up until I was in the fifth grade.

346

: 00:20:14

And my mother, who was a single, a single,

um, caregiver, care provider of our

347

: 00:20:20

family, and I have two older brothers,

we then moved into a Jewish community.

348

: 00:20:25

In Shaker in Cleveland

called Shaker Heights.

349

: 00:20:29

Shaker Heights has one of the

highest, um, population bases

350

: 00:20:33

of Jewish people in the country.

351

: 00:20:36

Very affluent community with the

exception of kind of this one little

352

: 00:20:42

area about a quarter mile or so in

Shaker where all black folks live that

353

: 00:20:46

kind of was on the border of Cleveland.

354

: 00:20:48

And my experience around racial

awakening Came from the fact that

355

: 00:20:54

I live in a two family house.

356

: 00:20:56

We live on the second floor.

357

: 00:20:57

We had five rooms, three of

which had furniture in it.

358

: 00:21:02

And when I say furniture,

I'm talking about a couple of

359

: 00:21:04

chairs or a bed or something.

360

: 00:21:07

And now I was being bused to a part

of Shaker that, and this was voluntary

361

: 00:21:13

busing, but I was being bused to a

part of Shaker with my Jewish friends.

362

: 00:21:18

where their lifestyle was

very different than mine.

363

: 00:21:23

And I would never forget this, Tony.

364

: 00:21:25

We had, and this was the

first day of being bussed.

365

: 00:21:29

And there were multiple schools that

the bus would pick up for the, we'd

366

: 00:21:34

pick up in the black part of Shaker.

367

: 00:21:37

In multiple schools along the way, where

they would drop three or four black kids

368

: 00:21:41

off here, six or seven black kids here.

369

: 00:21:43

And when we got to the final stop, which

I was in, in, in the last grouping, there

370

: 00:21:50

were seven of us that got off the bus.

371

: 00:21:53

And my very first day, again, I was

in, I was in the sixth grade now.

372

: 00:21:58

All right.

373

: 00:21:59

Imagine here's this brick school and

I'm getting off the bus and these

374

: 00:22:05

faces of all these white kids are

looking down at us, get off the bus.

375

: 00:22:11

I never, I can't really say that I

have been a specimen of any kind.

376

: 00:22:19

I don't know how zoo animals feel,

but if you think about the zoo animals

377

: 00:22:24

where people are walking by just

staring and pointing, that was my

378

: 00:22:29

experience of having all the white

kids staring out this window, pointing.

379

: 00:22:34

And that was my first experience from

anything racially or from a societal

380

: 00:22:40

standpoint, because I'd never interacted

with white kids day in and day out.

381

: 00:22:45

And I will tell you though, and I use

this exercise where I talk about the

382

: 00:22:50

first recollection of being different.

383

: 00:22:52

Tony Tidbit: That

384

: 00:22:53

Kevin Clayton: was really one of my

first recollections of being different,

385

: 00:22:55

but the outcome of that had to do

more from an economic standpoint.

386

: 00:22:59

Then it had to do from any type of

negative impact of me being black,

387

: 00:23:04

because I then went to the homes of

these Jewish kids, because that was

388

: 00:23:09

part of the assimilation, right?

389

: 00:23:11

We're going to take your, take

your new black friend home

390

: 00:23:14

with you and take him to lunch

391

: 00:23:16

Tony Tidbit: so he can get a good dinner.

392

: 00:23:17

Kevin Clayton: And Tony, I saw, I'm

like, wow, the maids quarters were

393

: 00:23:25

bigger than what our little five room.

394

: 00:23:29

Two family house was, and

that just inspired me to

395

: 00:23:34

economically to be, to do better.

396

: 00:23:37

I now had a, I had a example

of what that looked like.

397

: 00:23:42

Tony Tidbit: Right.

398

: 00:23:42

Kevin Clayton: And hell, I became a

homeowner when I was, 23 years old.

399

: 00:23:47

Wow.

400

: 00:23:47

And the reason why is I

knew where I came from.

401

: 00:23:51

I knew what I saw with my Jewish

friends and I'm like, nope, there

402

: 00:23:58

is a different way of living now.

403

: 00:24:00

Other other places.

404

: 00:24:01

Yes.

405

: 00:24:02

We have black folks that are affluent

and they have homes and all of that.

406

: 00:24:05

I just want to, was not afforded to being

able to see that example in my community.

407

: 00:24:12

So that was

408

: 00:24:12

my first kind of connection to, from

a race standpoint and how would I

409

: 00:24:18

know in the fifth or sixth grade that

the work that I would be doing, the

410

: 00:24:22

lifetime of work would have a direct

correlation to that experience.

411

: 00:24:27

Tony Tidbit: And you just

beat me to my next question.

412

: 00:24:29

So I love it.

413

: 00:24:30

I love, we on the same page, buddy.

414

: 00:24:32

We vibing here.

415

: 00:24:32

It's basketball.

416

: 00:24:34

Kevin Clayton: I just gave you,

I just gave you an alley oop.

417

: 00:24:35

You're not

418

: 00:24:36

Tony Tidbit: giving me

an alley oop like a mug.

419

: 00:24:37

Cause I was going to ask you, okay.

420

: 00:24:39

So.

421

: 00:24:39

Did that set you up?

422

: 00:24:40

Why did, why did you do this career?

423

: 00:24:42

What brought you to this career

in terms of what you're doing now?

424

: 00:24:46

Because, and I want to get, we're going

to dive deeper into it, but you're,

425

: 00:24:49

you're, you're, you are creating so much

equity and so much, uh, how should I say?

426

: 00:24:57

impact.

427

: 00:24:58

Well, people can see it.

428

: 00:24:59

It could be measurable, not just in

the sports arena or rock entertainment,

429

: 00:25:04

but throughout the community of the

Cleveland, Ohio, Greater Ohio area.

430

: 00:25:09

So tell us, how did

you get in this career?

431

: 00:25:13

Kevin Clayton: Yeah.

432

: 00:25:13

So, so interesting.

433

: 00:25:14

And this also goes back

to the work of DEI.

434

: 00:25:18

There is no career of DEI relative

to when I went to college, I

435

: 00:25:22

was a business and psych major.

436

: 00:25:25

Okay.

437

: 00:25:25

You, you don't get a degree in DEI.

438

: 00:25:29

Tony Tidbit: Correct.

439

: 00:25:29

Kevin Clayton: So my career started in

with P&G and I had a decade with Procter

440

: 00:25:35

and Gamble in sales and marketing.

441

: 00:25:37

And I was a very successful

executive with P&G.

442

: 00:25:41

And after 10 years, what I realized

was for me to go where I was,

443

: 00:25:45

which was an accelerated pace.

444

: 00:25:47

To the next level, there had not

been many folks that looked like

445

: 00:25:52

me that had gone beyond that.

446

: 00:25:54

Matter of fact, in the sales function,

nobody had gone beyond the level that

447

: 00:25:58

I was at, but I was at that level with

five other of my, of, of, of my peers.

448

: 00:26:04

All across kind of P&G's foothold.

449

: 00:26:06

And I'm like, you know, I'm 31 years old.

450

: 00:26:10

I got 10 years of P&G let me go

open up my own consulting firm,

451

: 00:26:16

because if it doesn't work, I can

always go back to corporate America.

452

: 00:26:20

Cause I got a PD, P&G pedigree.

453

: 00:26:23

So when I was at P&G my last three years

is when we introduced the whole concept

454

: 00:26:28

of diversity as a business strategy.

455

: 00:26:31

And Tony, I'm going back to like the

early nineties, late, late eighties.

456

: 00:26:39

And it was just diversity.

457

: 00:26:40

It was no I and E and B and J

and a, it wasn't all that extra.

458

: 00:26:46

It was clearly a business strategy.

459

: 00:26:48

As we looked at our marketplace and we

looked at our organization and said, what

460

: 00:26:53

sets us apart is that we have people that

look like America versus other companies.

461

: 00:27:00

That are more kind of

homogeneous to just white males.

462

: 00:27:05

The other thing that we identified and

our CEO, John Pepperhead, identified

463

: 00:27:09

that Asian companies or companies

from Asia were coming in, buying up U.

464

: 00:27:14

S.

465

: 00:27:14

companies, they too were kind of

folk that I mean, their makeup was

466

: 00:27:19

primarily men, let it be Asian men of

multiple kind of cultures, if it was

467

: 00:27:27

from China, Japan, Or, or, or Taiwan

knees, those companies were run by men.

468

: 00:27:33

So we, we knew that leveraging diversity.

469

: 00:27:37

And again, it's just diversity.

470

: 00:27:40

And the key word that I wanted

to say was leveraging diversity.

471

: 00:27:42

It's not just going out and hiring people.

472

: 00:27:43

It's like leveraging who we have.

473

: 00:27:45

That brings different perspectives

is going to make a difference.

474

: 00:27:48

It's going to have us say it

will set us up for success.

475

: 00:27:53

So I saw how it worked.

476

: 00:27:55

I was leading a significant high

profile market in Florida, and I

477

: 00:28:01

then wanted to take that learning

to start my consulting company.

478

: 00:28:06

Around how do you leverage

diversity in communities?

479

: 00:28:09

How do you leverage it in companies?

480

: 00:28:11

How do you leverage it with

institutions of higher learning?

481

: 00:28:16

And I was able to do that with a lot of

success to a point where that began my

482

: 00:28:22

journey around this concept of diversity

well before, obviously, George Floyd.

483

: 00:28:29

Was was, was murdered.

484

: 00:28:32

Tony Tidbit: Let me ask you this

question, 'cause I want to be clear.

485

: 00:28:34

Yeah.

486

: 00:28:34

I want the audience to be clear

and make sure they understand.

487

: 00:28:38

So when you say leverage diversity,

provide examples like what

488

: 00:28:42

does that mean specifically?

489

: 00:28:44

Kevin Clayton: Yeah.

490

: 00:28:44

That means that you are doing something

with the diversity of your organization.

491

: 00:28:50

Said differently.

492

: 00:28:51

Oftentimes people look at an organization

and they count and they look at the

493

: 00:28:57

demographics and it's like, Hey, we get

two of those, three of those, five of

494

: 00:29:01

those, six of those, eight of those.

495

: 00:29:04

Okay.

496

: 00:29:05

Tony, all that means is you have two

of those, three of those, five of

497

: 00:29:08

those, six of those, eight of those.

498

: 00:29:09

It doesn't mean that you

have created an environment.

499

: 00:29:13

That your organization can leverage

the fact that I come from a

500

: 00:29:17

completely different background,

even different than you, although

501

: 00:29:22

our skin color and our gender may be

the same, you and I are not the same.

502

: 00:29:28

So if I don't, if I don't create an

environment where I now can give people

503

: 00:29:34

who are different than white males

or white females, an opportunity, I

504

: 00:29:39

don't To bring their uniquenesses.

505

: 00:29:42

And I call this my cultural added value.

506

: 00:29:45

Then all I've done is gone out and hired

people, check the box and I've moved on.

507

: 00:29:52

So leveraging diversity says

I'm doing something with it.

508

: 00:29:55

There's also a term that's

called managing diversity.

509

: 00:30:00

Trust me, if you don't manage diversity,

diversity is going to manage you.

510

: 00:30:05

Tony Tidbit: So again, get,

break it down when you say

511

: 00:30:07

manage diversity specifically.

512

: 00:30:09

Kevin Clayton: Yep.

513

: 00:30:09

Yep.

514

: 00:30:09

So when we talk about managing

diversity, what we're talking about is

515

: 00:30:13

now that I have a team and let's just

say I get five members on my team.

516

: 00:30:17

That I actually have looked at and said,

okay, I had, I do have one of those, one

517

: 00:30:23

of those, one of those, whatever it might

be one female, one person that might be

518

: 00:30:27

LGBTQ, one Latin, a one black, whatever it

might be, then I need to understand that

519

: 00:30:35

those folks are going to bring different

complexities to my management style.

520

: 00:30:41

And if I cannot manage, I mean,

if I use the concept of I'm going

521

: 00:30:45

to manage everybody the same way.

522

: 00:30:48

I am a poor manager,

523

: 00:30:50

Tony Tidbit: right?

524

: 00:30:50

Kevin Clayton: And I would, let me,

let me just use a sports analogy.

525

: 00:30:54

And that sports analogy is if you think

about a basketball team, you would not

526

: 00:31:00

put on that basketball team, five players

that all did the exact same thing.

527

: 00:31:06

Also from a coaching standpoint

of those five basketball players.

528

: 00:31:11

Okay.

529

: 00:31:12

There are people or there are

players, athletes that respond

530

: 00:31:16

to coaching differently.

531

: 00:31:18

Some respond to, I got to get in, get,

get, put a foot in your butt and get you

532

: 00:31:23

going to some that like to be reinforced.

533

: 00:31:27

Yeah.

534

: 00:31:27

I need to give some a pat on the back.

535

: 00:31:29

So to that point, it's, it,

that's, what's managing diversity

536

: 00:31:34

coaches and have managed diversity.

537

: 00:31:37

Those successful coaches

Have managed diversity.

538

: 00:31:40

Think about Phil Jackson with the

Chicago Bulls could not have been more.

539

: 00:31:43

His team could not have been

more diverse by having somebody

540

: 00:31:47

as eccentric as Dennis Rodman to

somebody as great as Michael Jordan.

541

: 00:31:51

Tony Tidbit: Correct.

542

: 00:31:51

Kevin Clayton: And, and the industry

looks at Phil Jackson and he was probably

543

: 00:31:55

the greatest manager of diversity ever

in sports because he won six titles by

544

: 00:32:00

being able to manage the complexity.

545

: 00:32:03

coach the complexity of different

players and their needs.

546

: 00:32:07

Some he gave books to some, he

gave extra time to a day off.

547

: 00:32:12

So managing diversity from a corporate

standpoint is the exact same way.

548

: 00:32:17

Tony Tidbit: Buddy.

549

: 00:32:18

So,

550

: 00:32:21

you know what, man, I, I just, so no

one, thank you, my brother, you know,

551

: 00:32:27

You should run for president, okay?

552

: 00:32:30

Because you know, where we are today,

the way you just broke down leveraging

553

: 00:32:36

diversity and managing diversity in

very simplistic term that anybody,

554

: 00:32:43

regardless of their, uh, racial makeup

or their gender makeup would understand.

555

: 00:32:50

Would for the most part

would be behind it, right?

556

: 00:32:53

Because it makes total sense.

557

: 00:32:56

And it's to your point,

it's for the greater sum.

558

: 00:32:59

Okay.

559

: 00:33:00

Of the company or whether the case

may be, you know, you said you'd

560

: 00:33:04

stated that Procter and Gamble.

561

: 00:33:06

You know, 91, 92, whatever the year

was, it wasn't DE&I, it was just like,

562

: 00:33:11

you know what, here's a business idea.

563

: 00:33:13

We should become more diverse because

by doing that, we're going to have

564

: 00:33:16

more diverse customers, which is going

to help us increase our bottom line.

565

: 00:33:21

All right now.

566

: 00:33:22

Here's the thing, while I go to this

next question, I don't never remember

567

: 00:33:27

anybody attacking Procter and Gamble.

568

: 00:33:30

All right.

569

: 00:33:31

And saying that their initiative

in: 1991

570

: 00:33:37

or bad for their business or, or

it's going to make their business

571

: 00:33:40

upside down or there will Woke.

572

: 00:33:42

And all the things that you hear today.

573

: 00:33:44

So my brother talked to us a little

bit about why is DEI under attack?

574

: 00:33:50

And obviously there's, there

could be a lot of reasons, but I'd

575

: 00:33:52

love to hear your point of view.

576

: 00:33:54

Kevin Clayton: Yeah, Tony,

577

: 00:33:59

I know you have a vast audience and

I'm a, I am a hundred percent down.

578

: 00:34:03

For people responding to me,

because what I'm about to say

579

: 00:34:07

is going to get a response.

580

: 00:34:09

Tony Tidbit: Please, please be honest.

581

: 00:34:10

Here's

582

: 00:34:10

Kevin Clayton: what happened.

583

: 00:34:13

There's a lot of fingers to point

as to why it's now under attack.

584

: 00:34:19

And I appreciate what you just said.

585

: 00:34:20

You know, we, we have all terms for it.

586

: 00:34:22

Now it woke, here's what woke means.

587

: 00:34:25

Woke means my eyes were open to

something that I did not know before.

588

: 00:34:29

Tony Tidbit: Thank you.

589

: 00:34:30

But yet,

590

: 00:34:31

Kevin Clayton: but yet I might as

well call you the N word or something

591

: 00:34:34

because, because it's like, Ooh,

I'm the, wait, don't call me woke.

592

: 00:34:36

Like what?

593

: 00:34:37

Cause you're aware.

594

: 00:34:38

Cause you're

595

: 00:34:39

Tony Tidbit: aware.

596

: 00:34:39

You're aware.

597

: 00:34:40

Kevin Clayton: Yeah.

598

: 00:34:41

So, so with that,

599

: 00:34:44

prior to George Floyd being murdered, you

never heard about DEI being under attack.

600

: 00:34:48

And I'm telling you, I've been

doing this work with title up

601

: 00:34:52

with significant organizations.

602

: 00:34:53

Since the early nineties, you'd

never heard of it being under attack.

603

: 00:34:57

Why?

604

: 00:34:57

Because the early kind of the, the, the,

the early pioneers of the work understood.

605

: 00:35:03

That it was connecting back to my mission.

606

: 00:35:05

If I'm nonprofit or my bottom line, if,

if from a business standpoint, George

607

: 00:35:10

Floyd gets murdered, I will tell you

that the hottest job in America from

608

: 00:35:15

May of 2020, up until probably last year

in kind of early 23, the hottest job

609

: 00:35:27

in America in which the salaries were

double and triple the amount of what they

610

: 00:35:32

should have been was being a DEI leader.

611

: 00:35:36

Why?

612

: 00:35:36

Because white America now felt the

guilt that they had never felt before.

613

: 00:35:43

And I'm now talking about

business America around.

614

: 00:35:46

Wait a minute, we have to do something.

615

: 00:35:48

Wait, how, I mean, what, what, what, what

can I do to kind of help black folks?

616

: 00:35:55

Because now it's, it's obvious

that there's a disparity in

617

: 00:36:00

how they've been treated.

618

: 00:36:02

Again, Tony, you and I started the

conversation, George Floyd was not

619

: 00:36:06

the first, nor was he the last black

man to be killed by the police.

620

: 00:36:10

Tony Tidbit: We're talking

621

: 00:36:10

centuries.

622

: 00:36:11

Centuries of this stuff happened.

623

: 00:36:13

Kevin Clayton: Yes.

624

: 00:36:14

And therefore, what has happened

though, is it caught fire.

625

: 00:36:20

People made, and companies,

they made pledges.

626

: 00:36:23

In the first 60 days, there were 50

billion, which can be tracked of how many

627

: 00:36:29

companies and organizations pledge money.

628

: 00:36:34

You read my bio.

629

: 00:36:35

I went to North Carolina

Central University.

630

: 00:36:37

I got six generations of folks

that went to Florida A& M.

631

: 00:36:42

Historically Black colleges,

you would have thought just

632

: 00:36:44

got started post George Floyd.

633

: 00:36:48

It's like, wait, HBCUs.

634

: 00:36:50

What?

635

: 00:36:50

I'm like, they've been

,: 1800

636

: 00:36:55

Tony Tidbit: Correct.

637

: 00:36:55

Kevin Clayton: So what happens?

638

: 00:36:59

Because we, as a people who have

been oppressed that have not had the

639

: 00:37:04

equity or not had the same level of

respect from a societal standpoint,

640

: 00:37:11

Now we have a door of opportunity to

just kind of, you know, just get a

641

: 00:37:16

little bit, just get a little bit.

642

: 00:37:21

Tony Tidbit: And it's just,

and it's just opportunity.

643

: 00:37:23

Nobody gave us anything.

644

: 00:37:24

It's just opportunity.

645

: 00:37:25

You still got to prove it.

646

: 00:37:26

You still got to do it.

647

: 00:37:27

You still got all those types of things.

648

: 00:37:29

Kevin Clayton: So now doors are

649

: 00:37:30

being opened that maybe weren't

open before pledges of money that

650

: 00:37:33

weren't there are now given to us.

651

: 00:37:36

And the DEI position, and I'm going

to tie all this back together.

652

: 00:37:40

The DEI position I told you

was the hottest in America.

653

: 00:37:43

If you were black or a woman, that was

the qualification to become a Senior Vice

654

: 00:37:49

President or Chief Diversity Officer.

655

: 00:37:51

Tony, I don't know of one other

position that is a real legit position

656

: 00:37:56

in corporate America, where your

qualification is your skin color or your

657

: 00:38:01

gender or your sexual identification.

658

: 00:38:05

But because people didn't know, and

I'm talking about significant, I'm

659

: 00:38:09

talking about government, education,

business, all and nonprofits, because

660

: 00:38:14

they didn't know what this was about.

661

: 00:38:17

They were like, look, let me

go get a black person and make

662

: 00:38:19

them my chief diversity officer.

663

: 00:38:21

Okay, fine.

664

: 00:38:23

So if that's me, I'm not going to be

upset because you're giving me this job,

665

: 00:38:28

but it didn't come with any training.

666

: 00:38:31

It didn't come with what

does success look like?

667

: 00:38:33

Cause success could not look like,

I'm just going to go hire black folks.

668

: 00:38:37

Success could not look like,

help me write a check to an HBCU.

669

: 00:38:41

Sustainable success was not going to

be, uh, helping to eliminate the wrongs

670

: 00:38:47

that have happened to our, to our,

our, our community over the years.

671

: 00:38:53

Success had to be something that

was going to systemically change.

672

: 00:38:57

The economic standpoint of black

folks, educational standpoint of black

673

: 00:39:01

folks, all of the systems that have

been broken and administered unfairly.

674

: 00:39:06

That's what success look like.

675

: 00:39:08

Not just hiring a black person

or a woman and saying, now you're

676

: 00:39:11

my chief diversity officer.

677

: 00:39:12

So here's where we are now to no surprise

of which why I changed my title to

678

: 00:39:18

get DEI kind of as a sideline to talk

about social impact and equity is that

679

: 00:39:24

companies didn't have a strategy other

than let me go hire somebody and you

680

: 00:39:30

tell me what to do and I have colleagues

literally and I coach and mentor

681

: 00:39:34

DEI experts all across this country.

682

: 00:39:37

They have no resources.

683

: 00:39:39

They have no, no, no, no staff.

684

: 00:39:41

All they were given was

a task of go fix it,

685

: 00:39:45

Tony Tidbit: right?

686

: 00:39:46

Kevin Clayton: Okay.

687

: 00:39:46

Some companies that work, some

didn't, but here's the reality.

688

: 00:39:50

It pitted white folks and black

folks against each other in a much

689

: 00:39:55

more acute way than ever before.

690

: 00:39:58

And therefore, there's a certain side

of the aisle that's like, no, you're not

691

: 00:40:04

going to take away any more away from

us Then what has already been taken.

692

: 00:40:10

So the battle is that white males

feel that they are being threatened.

693

: 00:40:16

And because from a political

standpoint, white males have the

694

: 00:40:20

ability to influence legislation, to

also influence corporations, because

695

: 00:40:27

they're still the ones that are holding

the predominant positions of power.

696

: 00:40:33

That's where it went wrong because

it was focused on a short term fix.

697

: 00:40:38

There are less, less DEI leaders

in corporate America today than

698

: 00:40:43

there were actually when it started,

when the whole concept started.

699

: 00:40:48

Tony Tidbit: Let me ask you this.

700

: 00:40:49

Number one, thank you for that, my friend.

701

: 00:40:50

Let me ask you this.

702

: 00:40:51

Um, so just based on what you said.

703

: 00:40:55

You know that, you know, the companies,

you know, felt guilty and now I'm

704

: 00:41:00

going to try to do something and they

created this pretty much new position

705

: 00:41:04

that hadn't been around and they hired

a bunch of people, um, and set them

706

: 00:41:09

up for failure just to be fair, right?

707

: 00:41:11

Because there was no way they had no back.

708

: 00:41:12

They didn't support it.

709

: 00:41:14

They didn't give them any money.

710

: 00:41:16

They didn't do it.

711

: 00:41:16

There was no KPIs.

712

: 00:41:18

It was no business outcome to try to hit.

713

: 00:41:20

Just do it.

714

: 00:41:20

Okay.

715

: 00:41:21

So nine times out of 10, and you said

it a few minutes ago, you said, Hey,

716

: 00:41:24

some of them worked out and some didn't.

717

: 00:41:26

Right.

718

: 00:41:27

My question.

719

: 00:41:28

And I do not disagree with you in terms of

the policy and the power and the pushback.

720

: 00:41:34

Right.

721

: 00:41:35

Here's the thing though, that

I have a question for you.

722

: 00:41:38

So, and I asked another one of

our guests on this, uh, before.

723

: 00:41:43

So if DEI is not, it wasn't working

and it was, it wasn't, you know,

724

: 00:41:48

I don't want to say sham, but it

didn't, it wasn't effective and

725

: 00:41:52

it didn't really make any change.

726

: 00:41:54

What did white people lose?

727

: 00:41:56

Okay.

728

: 00:41:57

So what, what, what I, you know, for

somebody to get upset and says, I feel

729

: 00:42:01

like you're trying to take stuff from

me and we don't want this no more.

730

: 00:42:04

And, but what did they take?

731

: 00:42:06

What, what got tooken?

732

: 00:42:07

Because if it didn't work.

733

: 00:42:10

And it's a, it's a failure and

we haven't seen companies take

734

: 00:42:15

it to the next level and jobs, we

didn't see the equity increase.

735

: 00:42:19

We saw more of a negative

standpoint than what was the loss

736

: 00:42:24

to the white, to the white males.

737

: 00:42:26

Kevin Clayton: Yeah.

738

: 00:42:26

So, so Tony, that, that, that's

a very astute question and

739

: 00:42:31

it's all about smoking mirrors.

740

: 00:42:34

Okay.

741

: 00:42:36

All right.

742

: 00:42:36

So when I grew up in my neighborhood,

there were some brothers on the street

743

: 00:42:40

that used to play the shell game, right?

744

: 00:42:42

You know, what, what, what, what,

what, what, where's the ball?

745

: 00:42:50

Where's the, where's the

746

: 00:42:51

Tony Tidbit: ball?

747

: 00:42:52

Where's the card?

748

: 00:42:53

The

749

: 00:42:53

Kevin Clayton: only time

you or I would have won.

750

: 00:42:56

Is if we were being set up to win

because there was somebody else they were

751

: 00:42:59

trying to get more money from, right?

752

: 00:43:00

Tony Tidbit: Correct.

753

: 00:43:01

They let a couple people win.

754

: 00:43:02

They let a couple

755

: 00:43:02

Kevin Clayton: people win.

756

: 00:43:03

So here's the point that it's

not about the impact of DEI.

757

: 00:43:09

It's was positioned and

it's now being weaponized.

758

: 00:43:14

And if you think about where

is it being weaponized?

759

: 00:43:17

It started on the right hand side of

the aisle from a political standpoint.

760

: 00:43:22

Tony Tidbit: Exactly.

761

: 00:43:22

Exactly.

762

: 00:43:23

Kevin Clayton: As, as a way to

galvanize that base, to make it appear

763

: 00:43:29

that something that they were, that

something was being, we're losing

764

: 00:43:33

Tony Tidbit: something, we're losing

765

: 00:43:34

Kevin Clayton: something.

766

: 00:43:35

Tony Tidbit: Preach my brother.

767

: 00:43:36

And therefore we'll talk about

768

: 00:43:37

Kevin Clayton: therefore, because

it was, it, it didn't exist.

769

: 00:43:40

I mean, you just hit it on the head.

770

: 00:43:41

Like, wait a minute.

771

: 00:43:42

it.

772

: 00:43:42

In some cases it might have

worked, in some cases maybe not.

773

: 00:43:45

But if you think about where it

started, it started in places

774

: 00:43:48

where legislation could be passed.

775

: 00:43:50

And if you

776

: 00:43:51

track where that legislation was

passed, and the NBA has a heat map that

777

: 00:43:55

I get on a regular basis as to where

legislation is being identified and

778

: 00:44:00

focused on either laws that have actually

been passed or pending legislation.

779

: 00:44:06

Then it started with

institutions of higher learning,

780

: 00:44:09

colleges and universities.

781

: 00:44:11

That, well, it really was a tipping

point had to do with the Supreme Court's

782

: 00:44:15

ruling, which was the Supreme Court

ruling that happened in with, with

783

: 00:44:20

Harvard, where it was saying that you

could not use race as a, as a metric

784

: 00:44:26

from, from an admission standpoint.

785

: 00:44:28

Tony Tidbit: Correct.

786

: 00:44:28

Affirmative action overturned.

787

: 00:44:30

Kevin Clayton: Right.

788

: 00:44:31

So, so with that, and that's not

the first time the Supreme Court

789

: 00:44:34

had actually ruled against that.

790

: 00:44:36

So it didn't say you

couldn't have DEI programs.

791

: 00:44:40

But at that point it gave fuel,

it gave fuel to those who were

792

: 00:44:44

trying to light the match.

793

: 00:44:46

Now the match wasn't lighting until that

fuel came out and it's like, Oh wait, this

794

: 00:44:50

caught fire because look, it must be wrong

that the Supreme court is saying is wrong.

795

: 00:44:55

Then you had a number of attorney

generals across the country that said,

796

: 00:44:58

I'm going to take this ruling and

take it from an academic standpoint,

797

: 00:45:04

and I will sue fortune 500 companies.

798

: 00:45:07

And this is all documented.

799

: 00:45:08

Right.

800

: 00:45:08

It's all documented where there were 11

attorney generals that then said, I'm

801

: 00:45:13

going to now sue fortune 500 companies.

802

: 00:45:17

If you use DEI in your metric of

hiring of any from a perspective of

803

: 00:45:26

look, we're going to use what the

Supreme Court just held up with higher

804

: 00:45:32

institutions of higher learning.

805

: 00:45:34

So now think about that.

806

: 00:45:36

If I, if, if now the spotlight is

being put on companies, like it was

807

: 00:45:41

putting on academic institutions.

808

: 00:45:44

Companies are now saying, well,

wait, I don't want to get sued.

809

: 00:45:47

I don't want to do this.

810

: 00:45:48

So therefore We're going

to end these programs.

811

: 00:45:52

We're going to stop the programs at the

end of the day to your point earlier I

812

: 00:45:57

started this work in the late 80s early

90s P&G is heralded as, I mean, their,

813

: 00:46:04

their stock has gone up, up, up, and up.

814

: 00:46:08

So the, the, the challenge

was those individuals.

815

: 00:46:13

And I go back to why

we were set up to fail.

816

: 00:46:16

If I had not been taught how to leverage

diversity, how to manage diversity

817

: 00:46:21

for the betterment or the good of my

organization, where everybody wins.

818

: 00:46:28

And if I feel like I'm being

threatened, then I'm going to want

819

: 00:46:32

to fight and rebel against that.

820

: 00:46:35

So our folks who were leading these

programs weren't taught efficiently

821

: 00:46:39

and effectively on how to develop a

business strategy out of this work.

822

: 00:46:44

They looked at five seats.

823

: 00:46:47

Let me get five folks that are

different around those seats.

824

: 00:46:50

So five folks that are racially different.

825

: 00:46:51

And therefore, boom, I have diversity.

826

: 00:46:54

No, all you got is five people.

827

: 00:46:55

You haven't done anything with it.

828

: 00:46:57

Tony Tidbit: Right, right, right.

829

: 00:46:59

Let me ask you this, my

friend, let's jettison forward.

830

: 00:47:02

Tell us some of the things that you're

doing that's different, that's succeeding,

831

: 00:47:06

because you're affecting, again, like we

talked about earlier, not just the sports

832

: 00:47:11

industry, but also the greater community.

833

: 00:47:13

Kevin Clayton: Yeah, so the first thing

that we did that was different is we

834

: 00:47:17

defined the work of what diversity is,

what inclusion was, what equity was.

835

: 00:47:22

Across our entire

organization that was first.

836

: 00:47:26

So the people understood what it was.

837

: 00:47:28

And I will tell you in all the sessions

that I did, I'm like, however, you

838

: 00:47:32

want to define this work outside of

these four walls, feel free to do so.

839

: 00:47:37

But when you hear the term DEI with the

Cleveland Cavaliers, Here's what it means.

840

: 00:47:43

It has.

841

: 00:47:43

It defines our fans.

842

: 00:47:44

It defines our marketplace.

843

: 00:47:46

It defines our viewing population.

844

: 00:47:48

It defines our, our, our, our

virtual interaction with our fans

845

: 00:47:53

that is not identified as black or

white, but it's looked upon as here

846

: 00:47:57

is a marketplace and if on any of

those fronts on the marketplace.

847

: 00:48:02

If we haven't developed that relationship

with a group of people, regardless of who

848

: 00:48:07

they are, we have a business opportunity,

849

: 00:48:10

Tony Tidbit: right?

850

: 00:48:10

Kevin Clayton: Oh, by the way, it was

typically people of color where we

851

: 00:48:14

had the lagging opportunities, right?

852

: 00:48:16

That's just a business.

853

: 00:48:18

That's okay.

854

: 00:48:19

Well, in order to do that, I

now need to make sure that my

855

: 00:48:22

organization is reflective of the

markets in which we're going after.

856

: 00:48:28

Excuse me.

857

: 00:48:29

So in putting all that in play,

other kinds of things we did, and

858

: 00:48:33

I'm just building the car for you

because we had to build a foundation.

859

: 00:48:38

I have a CEO that was understanding

of this and aggressive enough to say.

860

: 00:48:44

Kevin, we need to also tie this into

compensation and performance development.

861

: 00:48:50

Why?

862

: 00:48:51

Because everything else that we

do is important and we tie it to

863

: 00:48:56

compensation and performance development.

864

: 00:49:00

So at that point, Tony, I basically

built the car to look exactly like

865

: 00:49:05

every other car that was in our

garage of important opportunities

866

: 00:49:12

and important business strategies.

867

: 00:49:14

So just like we have a marketing strategy,

a social, uh, social engagement strategy,

868

: 00:49:21

just like we have a it strategy, a

business analytics strategy, or we have

869

: 00:49:25

a DEI strategy that connects and is as

important as everything else that we do.

870

: 00:49:31

And the reason why is because people

understood no matter if you were short,

871

: 00:49:35

tall, black, white, male, female,

that this is going to be good for me.

872

: 00:49:41

So with that, that was internally

externally, what we did.

873

: 00:49:46

I went to every one of our fan bases.

874

: 00:49:48

By population group and ask how, what

do we need to do to connect with you?

875

: 00:49:54

What are the things in which are working?

876

: 00:49:56

What are the things in which

doesn't work as far as how you feel

877

: 00:49:59

about our interaction with you.

878

: 00:50:01

People will tell you today that when

you walk in Rocket Mortgage's Field

879

: 00:50:04

House, where the Cavs play or our

hockey team, the monsters who actually

880

: 00:50:08

just won their division championship,

you will see a reflection of the

881

: 00:50:13

population base of our community.

882

: 00:50:16

And, and that is so that outside

people feel that they're a part

883

: 00:50:20

of what we're doing inside.

884

: 00:50:22

Correct.

885

: 00:50:22

So, looking at it from that

perspective, if we are a sports and

886

: 00:50:27

entertainment conglomerate that depends

on outside folks, our community,

887

: 00:50:34

our fans coming into our building.

888

: 00:50:37

If it's a Jay Z and Beyonce concert, if

it's, you know, whomever it might be, I

889

: 00:50:44

need to make sure that our fans and our,

and our, and our customers know that this

890

: 00:50:49

is a place that you will feel welcome.

891

: 00:50:51

You

892

: 00:50:52

won't feel as though you're

discriminated against.

893

: 00:50:54

And we've, we've gone through for

five years now to identify areas

894

: 00:50:57

of opportunity, such as, you know,

Cleveland has a nine to 10%, um, 10

895

: 00:51:04

percent population base of Latin folks.

896

: 00:51:08

We didn't have a sign in this building

when I got here that was in Spanish.

897

: 00:51:14

Tony, here's the thing.

898

: 00:51:15

All of our signage is digital.

899

: 00:51:19

So it's not a lot to change.

900

: 00:51:21

Yeah, yeah, yeah, right.

901

: 00:51:22

But I'm saying it's not like you have

to, it wasn't like, Oh, I got it.

902

: 00:51:25

Tony Tidbit: You could just easily just

plug, program that to speak Spanish.

903

: 00:51:28

Exactly.

904

: 00:51:29

Yes,

905

: 00:51:29

Kevin Clayton: exactly.

906

: 00:51:30

Yes.

907

: 00:51:31

So that's what we started doing.

908

: 00:51:32

Right.

909

: 00:51:33

And that population base

is like, wow, that, okay.

910

: 00:51:36

I feel welcome.

911

: 00:51:36

Tony Tidbit: Thank you.

912

: 00:51:37

They were, thank you.

913

: 00:51:38

We feel welcome.

914

: 00:51:39

Kevin Clayton: We had, we put on every

concert in this building and we now have,

915

: 00:51:43

we have two Latin acts that are coming up

this year for the first time because those

916

: 00:51:49

communities said, we don't want to have to

drive to Detroit or Cincinnati or Chicago.

917

: 00:51:56

To hear a Latin performer,

918

: 00:52:01

Tony, that's the business,

919

: 00:52:03

right?

920

: 00:52:05

They feel like they belong.

921

: 00:52:06

They feel a part of,

they feel listened to.

922

: 00:52:09

We feel the same way and at the same

time, we are making, you're making money.

923

: 00:52:13

. We're making money.

924

: 00:52:14

You making money?

925

: 00:52:16

Yes.

926

: 00:52:16

Business Grow money.

927

: 00:52:17

Of which, and I wanna be

really clear to your listeners.

928

: 00:52:20

Money of which goes back to the

foundation that I also run the money

929

: 00:52:25

that's going back to suppliers, vendors,

and the community education programs.

930

: 00:52:31

So it's a reciprocal relationship,

which is what DEI is.

931

: 00:52:37

So there's nobody that can say,

Oh man, you took away from me.

932

: 00:52:41

Or you're, you're leveraging

diversity to make money.

933

: 00:52:43

Yes.

934

: 00:52:43

To give back to you.

935

: 00:52:48

Tony Tidbit: Love it.

936

: 00:52:49

I love it.

937

: 00:52:49

My brother.

938

: 00:52:50

Let me ask you this.

939

: 00:52:51

My brother, my man, um, you did a

really good job painting the landscape

940

: 00:52:55

and I love what you guys are doing.

941

: 00:52:58

What I'm hearing is this.

942

: 00:53:00

I'm hearing your success is

based on the community success.

943

: 00:53:06

Right?

944

: 00:53:06

If you make the community and make

them feel a part of your, your business

945

: 00:53:11

strategies, what you put on, right?

946

: 00:53:14

You become successful

and they become success.

947

: 00:53:17

Let me let me say in other words,

they become successful 1st.

948

: 00:53:20

Then you become successful, right?

949

: 00:53:22

So it's like you said, it's an investment,

not just in the getting LeBron James

950

: 00:53:28

or getting, uh, uh, Donovan Mitchell.

951

: 00:53:30

I'm just naming some of your

players and signing those players.

952

: 00:53:33

I'm like, look, we signed these guys.

953

: 00:53:35

No, that's not, that's part of what we do.

954

: 00:53:37

But the end of what we want

to do is make our community.

955

: 00:53:42

We're signing them.

956

: 00:53:43

We're investing money in them, right?

957

: 00:53:45

Because if we do that, then they're

going to partner with us, not

958

: 00:53:49

just short term, but long term, is

959

: 00:53:52

that

960

: 00:53:52

correct?

961

: 00:53:52

My man,

962

: 00:53:53

Kevin Clayton: you hit it on the head

and let me just tell you very quickly.

963

: 00:53:56

We have a five part strategy

that starts with our team members

964

: 00:54:00

and we use sports vernacular.

965

: 00:54:02

Those are employees, our team members.

966

: 00:54:04

Our objective is to make sure

our team members reflect the

967

: 00:54:07

demographics of our community.

968

: 00:54:09

So why not just so I can check

the box because I know if I hire

969

: 00:54:14

people from the community, they're

going to give me feedback about the

970

: 00:54:16

community, which is also our fans.

971

: 00:54:19

We have

972

: 00:54:19

a fan strategy.

973

: 00:54:21

Our fan strategy connects with how do

we increase the representation of our

974

: 00:54:25

fan base across all of our platforms.

975

: 00:54:27

Retail, virtual, online,

all of those things.

976

: 00:54:31

We then have a marketplace strategy

that says, how do I leverage diversity

977

: 00:54:36

to drive revenue in the marketplace?

978

: 00:54:39

We have a community engagement

strategy and all of these connect.

979

: 00:54:45

So it's not pillars that

are in kind of these silos.

980

: 00:54:49

My platform is a circle because

if I'm not being true to my

981

: 00:54:54

team members and employees.

982

: 00:54:56

They're part of the community

that are part of my fan base.

983

: 00:54:59

That's part of the marketplace

and it all connects,

984

: 00:55:04

Tony Tidbit: correct?

985

: 00:55:05

Correct.

986

: 00:55:05

Kevin Clayton: We, we are verbal about it.

987

: 00:55:07

We are visual about it.

988

: 00:55:09

And it then also is connected back

to a system that is called our

989

: 00:55:14

compensation system, where all of our

bonus eligible team members, which

990

: 00:55:19

are about 90 percent of our team

members have a stake in the game.

991

: 00:55:23

Last year, we added it to

what we call our game plan.

992

: 00:55:26

Which our game plan is like our

annual review or what have you.

993

: 00:55:29

There's a, there's a part on there

that says it's about DEI and community.

994

: 00:55:34

What is it that I'm going to do to

enhance the DEI strategy and plan?

995

: 00:55:40

Why would I want to do that?

996

: 00:55:41

Because it helps

everything else that we do.

997

: 00:55:44

Tony Tidbit: Correct.

998

: 00:55:44

Correct.

999

: 00:55:47

That is awesome, buddy.

: 1000

00:55:48,450 --> 00:55:49,230

That is awesome.

: 1001

00:55:49,230 --> 00:55:51,920

What you guys are doing final

thoughts, my friend, what do

: 1002

00:55:51,920 --> 00:55:52,960

you want to leave the audience?

: 1003

00:55:52,960 --> 00:55:57,050

You already gave us a ton to

be honest, but final thoughts.

: 1004

00:55:57,110 --> 00:55:57,320

Kevin Clayton: Yeah.

: 1005

00:55:57,320 --> 00:56:02,469

So, so Tony me your audience, which

based on the title, which focuses on

: 1006

00:56:02,469 --> 00:56:09,980

the black executive is, is that we

have so much talent and skill above

: 1007

00:56:09,980 --> 00:56:11,720

and beyond what's on our resume.

: 1008

00:56:12,400 --> 00:56:13,670

I referenced this earlier.

: 1009

00:56:13,670 --> 00:56:19,280

This is a whole piece that I do is if,

if I'm being, if I'm going into interview

: 1010

00:56:19,280 --> 00:56:25,740

for a job or for the, say, I'm on a

team already, my cultural added value is

: 1011

00:56:25,740 --> 00:56:30,259

what is different about me than others.

: 1012

00:56:30,340 --> 00:56:32,219

It's not my skin color.

: 1013

00:56:32,960 --> 00:56:38,080

It's what is my life's experience growing

up in Cleveland, Ohio, being then bused

: 1014

00:56:38,080 --> 00:56:43,290

into Shaker, Shaker Heights, being

now in a community with Jewish folks.

: 1015

00:56:43,930 --> 00:56:47,280

That have taken me to a

predominantly black school and then

: 1016

00:56:47,320 --> 00:56:49,100

transferring to a white school.

: 1017

00:56:49,280 --> 00:56:53,310

What are all those things of my

experience that made Kevin Clayton

: 1018

00:56:53,310 --> 00:56:56,040

who I am that I now can talk to?

: 1019

00:56:56,310 --> 00:56:58,609

Oh, here is why I am.

: 1020

00:56:58,690 --> 00:57:00,650

I am a resourceful person.

: 1021

00:57:01,100 --> 00:57:01,610

Tony Tidbit: Why?

: 1022

00:57:01,639 --> 00:57:05,630

Kevin Clayton: Because how I

grew up, we had to be resourced.

: 1023

00:57:05,630 --> 00:57:06,340

And I'm not saying it.

: 1024

00:57:06,390 --> 00:57:07,580

I'm just saying that's my experience.

: 1025

00:57:08,350 --> 00:57:11,550

I'm not speaking categorically for

all black people, but the point

: 1026

00:57:11,550 --> 00:57:16,980

is we look at, Oh, well, I am a

certain race or a certain gender,

: 1027

00:57:17,220 --> 00:57:18,790

and that's what the added value is.

: 1028

00:57:18,830 --> 00:57:22,240

No, it's, it's what are your

experiences as that person

: 1029

00:57:22,469 --> 00:57:23,960

that you can begin to quantify?

: 1030

00:57:23,980 --> 00:57:27,060

And I will tell you a hundred

percent without doubt.

: 1031

00:57:27,060 --> 00:57:30,650

I know when I learned that when I

was 20 years old and interviewed

: 1032

00:57:30,650 --> 00:57:32,410

with P&G my senior year.

: 1033

00:57:33,260 --> 00:57:37,870

And I know that because P&G hires

athletes, they, they want a 3.

: 1034

00:57:38,490 --> 00:57:40,320

2 grade point average.

: 1035

00:57:40,845 --> 00:57:42,665

And they want you to

come from a big school.

: 1036

00:57:43,615 --> 00:57:45,815

I didn't go to a big school.

: 1037

00:57:46,505 --> 00:57:48,444

I was my grade point average was 2.

: 1038

00:57:48,445 --> 00:57:49,525

7.

: 1039

00:57:50,475 --> 00:57:55,494

I got the P&G interview because my

marketing professor was friends with

: 1040

00:57:55,495 --> 00:57:59,144

a P&G executive and he did him a

solid by giving me the interview.

: 1041

00:58:00,875 --> 00:58:01,395

So.

: 1042

00:58:02,035 --> 00:58:04,255

The recruiter was like,

Kevin, you're great.

: 1043

00:58:04,595 --> 00:58:05,475

Really appreciate it.

: 1044

00:58:05,475 --> 00:58:07,215

I mean, you have a good basketball career.

: 1045

00:58:07,215 --> 00:58:08,335

You're a captain of the team.

: 1046

00:58:08,345 --> 00:58:12,495

You're showing leadership, but your

GPA, I mean, talk to me about that

: 1047

00:58:12,515 --> 00:58:13,815

because it's, I mean, you're 2.

: 1048

00:58:13,894 --> 00:58:14,314

7.

: 1049

00:58:14,595 --> 00:58:16,255

We kind of started 3.

: 1050

00:58:16,255 --> 00:58:16,594

2.

: 1051

00:58:17,575 --> 00:58:19,295

Well, Tony, I was a father at 19.

: 1052

00:58:21,455 --> 00:58:29,065

I played basketball at D1

level, captain of the basketball

: 1053

00:58:29,095 --> 00:58:31,295

team, was a resident assistant.

: 1054

00:58:32,930 --> 00:58:42,630

Worked, raised my daughter and also

finished in transferring in schools.

: 1055

00:58:42,670 --> 00:58:44,859

I finished in four years with two degrees.

: 1056

00:58:46,369 --> 00:58:49,649

I was a little bit busier than the regular

: 1057

00:58:50,100 --> 00:58:50,390

person.

: 1058

00:58:50,410 --> 00:58:51,990

Tony Tidbit: Yeah, they

could just focus on school.

: 1059

00:58:52,160 --> 00:58:53,079

Focus on school.

: 1060

00:58:55,129 --> 00:59:00,710

Kevin Clayton: So when I went through and

he, he was like, Whoa, I said, yeah, what?

: 1061

00:59:00,770 --> 00:59:02,880

I mean, I could have dropped

some of these things.

: 1062

00:59:04,210 --> 00:59:08,000

But being a father at age 19,

and I'm not talking about I was

: 1063

00:59:08,280 --> 00:59:10,000

a, I mean, I was a dad at 19.

: 1064

00:59:10,070 --> 00:59:11,090

You were involved.

: 1065

00:59:11,250 --> 00:59:16,069

I was involved and finished

my career or, or finished my

: 1066

00:59:16,080 --> 00:59:17,809

basketball career in four years.

: 1067

00:59:17,810 --> 00:59:20,260

Well, back then, if you transferred,

you had to sit out a year.

: 1068

00:59:20,619 --> 00:59:21,009

Correct.

: 1069

00:59:21,059 --> 00:59:23,179

So I was able to articulate.

: 1070

00:59:23,955 --> 00:59:24,945

Here's what that meant.

: 1071

00:59:25,195 --> 00:59:26,335

And Tony, here's what that meant.

: 1072

00:59:26,775 --> 00:59:30,095

One, it meant that I'm going to be

a lot more responsible than another

: 1073

00:59:30,095 --> 00:59:33,275

21 year old that you're going to

bring into your organization because

: 1074

00:59:33,315 --> 00:59:37,225

I've already had that level of

responsibility at a very early age.

: 1075

00:59:37,895 --> 00:59:42,985

Secondly, it means that I've had a lot

of experiences that most kids don't

: 1076

00:59:42,995 --> 00:59:45,155

have at that age coming out of college.

: 1077

00:59:45,355 --> 00:59:50,355

So, I'm going to probably go faster in

your management program because I've

: 1078

00:59:50,355 --> 00:59:54,375

seen things, I've had to be faster,

I've had to respond to certain things.

: 1079

00:59:54,705 --> 00:59:59,925

Also, being raised by a single black woman

in Cleveland, moving from place to place

: 1080

00:59:59,935 --> 01:00:01,625

to place from an economic standpoint.

: 1081

01:00:02,025 --> 01:00:03,125

I'm thrifty.

: 1082

01:00:03,175 --> 01:00:04,905

I'm, I think about budget.

: 1083

01:00:04,925 --> 01:00:08,245

I think about, so I just went

through to translate all the things

: 1084

01:00:08,245 --> 01:00:10,695

that were my cultural added value.

: 1085

01:00:11,395 --> 01:00:13,185

Again, that's not all black people.

: 1086

01:00:13,235 --> 01:00:14,915

That's Kevin Clayton as a black man.

: 1087

01:00:15,745 --> 01:00:15,865

So

: 1088

01:00:15,865 --> 01:00:18,565

you're looking at somebody who went

to Michigan and played basketball in

: 1089

01:00:18,575 --> 01:00:21,925

Michigan, graduated in five years or me.

: 1090

01:00:22,395 --> 01:00:28,525

I'm now with somebody that was more

adaptable than they were and much more

: 1091

01:00:28,525 --> 01:00:31,875

attractive because of all the things,

but most of us don't take the time

: 1092

01:00:31,875 --> 01:00:33,505

to talk about that or understand it.

: 1093

01:00:33,655 --> 01:00:37,885

So the message I want to leave our folks

is that there's more to us than our

: 1094

01:00:37,885 --> 01:00:42,985

skin color or gender, and it's okay to

translate that what is the transferable

: 1095

01:00:42,985 --> 01:00:46,455

skills that your life's experiences

as a black person has taught you.

: 1096

01:00:47,880 --> 01:00:48,930

That's what I have for you, bro.

: 1097

01:00:49,250 --> 01:00:49,920

Tony Tidbit: I buddy.

: 1098

01:00:49,920 --> 01:00:50,430

I love it.

: 1099

01:00:50,480 --> 01:00:51,430

I appreciate it.

: 1100

01:00:51,430 --> 01:00:54,030

And it's a message that is not said a lot.

: 1101

01:00:54,620 --> 01:00:54,960

All right.

: 1102

01:00:54,960 --> 01:00:59,480

And if it is, it's not said often and

people need to hear that because they

: 1103

01:00:59,480 --> 01:01:04,290

feel that if they don't check a box or

all the boxes, they don't have a shot.

: 1104

01:01:04,955 --> 01:01:08,045

And believe it or not, when you

break it down like that, you get that

: 1105

01:01:08,045 --> 01:01:11,335

opportunity to sit in front of them and

explain your experience and what you're

: 1106

01:01:11,335 --> 01:01:15,305

going to bring, how your experience is

going to help you bring the next level

: 1107

01:01:15,305 --> 01:01:17,065

to the table for this organization.

: 1108

01:01:17,275 --> 01:01:18,545

It makes a big difference.

: 1109

01:01:18,575 --> 01:01:20,195

And it makes a huge difference.

: 1110

01:01:20,195 --> 01:01:22,195

So thank you for sharing that, my man.

: 1111

01:01:22,475 --> 01:01:26,279

Thank you for appearing on the

Black Executive Perspective podcast.

: 1112

01:01:26,280 --> 01:01:29,310

Final thing, man, what can

BEP do for Kevin Clayton,

: 1113

01:01:30,250 --> 01:01:30,530

Kevin Clayton: brother?

: 1114

01:01:30,540 --> 01:01:34,060

One thing that you can do is just

make sure that you give good energy to

: 1115

01:01:34,090 --> 01:01:38,260

Cleveland Cavaliers as we roll through,

as we roll through these playoffs.

: 1116

01:01:39,330 --> 01:01:41,170

Tony Tidbit: Well, look,

bro, I'll tell you this.

: 1117

01:01:41,200 --> 01:01:43,930

I like Donovan, but I like you better.

: 1118

01:01:44,315 --> 01:01:46,675

So at the end of the day,

I got you back on that.

: 1119

01:01:46,695 --> 01:01:48,445

I'm going to root for you guys hard.

: 1120

01:01:48,445 --> 01:01:48,745

Okay.

: 1121

01:01:48,745 --> 01:01:52,755

I'm going to root for you, but outside

of that, my friend, all jokes aside, if

: 1122

01:01:52,755 --> 01:01:57,545

there's anything that we can do for you

at any time, you know, just let us know.

: 1123

01:01:57,555 --> 01:01:59,245

We really, really appreciate it.

: 1124

01:01:59,255 --> 01:02:02,105

We'd love to have you come

back at some time soon as well.

: 1125

01:02:02,515 --> 01:02:03,785

Kevin Clayton: Uh, Tony, I appreciate it.

: 1126

01:02:03,795 --> 01:02:05,045

Just being on your show.

: 1127

01:02:05,135 --> 01:02:06,535

I mean, that's a big step forward.

: 1128

01:02:06,880 --> 01:02:11,380

I have a message that I want folks

to hear and your platform is a great

: 1129

01:02:11,380 --> 01:02:12,940

one for me to be able to communicate.

: 1130

01:02:13,020 --> 01:02:13,650

So thank you.

: 1131

01:02:14,250 --> 01:02:15,330

Tony Tidbit: You're welcome my brother.

: 1132

01:02:15,330 --> 01:02:20,290

So Kevin Clayton, Senior Vice

President at the Cleveland Cavaliers.

: 1133

01:02:20,290 --> 01:02:21,980

We really appreciate him coming on.

: 1134

01:02:22,260 --> 01:02:26,050

And so now I think it's

time for Tony's tidbit.

: 1135

01:02:26,280 --> 01:02:26,870

Okay.

: 1136

01:02:26,870 --> 01:02:30,940

So based on what Kevin talked about

today, the tidbit is from Maya Angelou.

: 1137

01:02:31,310 --> 01:02:37,030

And the tidbit is we all should know

that diversity makes for a rich tapestry.

: 1138

01:02:37,580 --> 01:02:43,190

And we must understand that all threads

of the tapestry are equal in value.

: 1139

01:02:43,890 --> 01:02:45,750

No matter what their color.

: 1140

01:02:46,480 --> 01:02:50,460

And you heard a lot of that from our

partner and our friend, Kevin Clayton.

: 1141

01:02:50,460 --> 01:02:51,520

So we want to thank him.

: 1142

01:02:51,520 --> 01:02:52,550

We want to thank you.

: 1143

01:02:52,710 --> 01:02:56,970

So we hope that you enjoyed

this episode of navigating the

: 1144

01:02:56,970 --> 01:03:02,340

crossroads DEI under fire and the

path of social impact and equity.

: 1145

01:03:02,620 --> 01:03:04,200

It's time for our call to action.

: 1146

01:03:04,510 --> 01:03:07,270

Our goal is to decrease

racism, all the isms.

: 1147

01:03:07,360 --> 01:03:13,590

So our acronym is L E S S L stands

for learn, continue to educate on

: 1148

01:03:13,590 --> 01:03:17,550

people that you don't know, things

that you don't know, cultural nuances.

: 1149

01:03:17,550 --> 01:03:20,709

You don't know E once you

learn now you should have.

: 1150

01:03:20,860 --> 01:03:25,130

Empathy for your fellow human being

and understand what they go through.

: 1151

01:03:25,490 --> 01:03:26,850

S stands for share.

: 1152

01:03:27,010 --> 01:03:31,550

Now, since you've learned, you want to

share what you've learned to your friends

: 1153

01:03:31,550 --> 01:03:33,450

and family so they can be enlightened.

: 1154

01:03:33,650 --> 01:03:35,820

And the other S stands for stop.

: 1155

01:03:36,295 --> 01:03:39,075

We want to stop discrimination

wherever you see it.

: 1156

01:03:39,285 --> 01:03:42,675

So if grandma's at the Thanksgiving

table saying stuff, you say,

: 1157

01:03:42,675 --> 01:03:44,585

grandma, we don't say that no more.

: 1158

01:03:44,695 --> 01:03:46,275

And you stop it wherever you are.

: 1159

01:03:46,275 --> 01:03:51,225

So if we all incorporate less

L E S S we'll build a fair,

: 1160

01:03:51,255 --> 01:03:52,595

more understanding world.

: 1161

01:03:52,625 --> 01:03:54,369

And we'll be able to see.

: 1162

01:03:54,370 --> 01:03:58,420

The change that we want to see tune into

our next episode, the black executive

: 1163

01:03:58,420 --> 01:04:01,850

perspective, wherever you get your

podcast, please go to our website.

: 1164

01:04:02,140 --> 01:04:03,220

Give us some feedback.

: 1165

01:04:03,250 --> 01:04:03,850

Let us know.

: 1166

01:04:03,860 --> 01:04:04,780

How did you like Kevin?

: 1167

01:04:05,010 --> 01:04:06,770

Was there some questions

you have for them?

: 1168

01:04:06,990 --> 01:04:09,440

Did I did, was there some

questions I didn't ask?

: 1169

01:04:09,660 --> 01:04:10,480

Let us know.

: 1170

01:04:10,650 --> 01:04:14,740

And please follow our website, excuse

me, follow a black executive perspective

: 1171

01:04:14,860 --> 01:04:21,540

on all our social channels, LinkedIn

X YouTube, Instagram, and Tik TOK at

: 1172

01:04:21,540 --> 01:04:23,960

a black exec for our fabulous guests.

: 1173

01:04:24,120 --> 01:04:28,510

Kevin Clayton for my man, AA, who

does all the things behind the

: 1174

01:04:28,520 --> 01:04:30,060

background and make this happen.

: 1175

01:04:30,300 --> 01:04:31,630

I'm Tony tidbit.

: 1176

01:04:31,860 --> 01:04:32,880

We love you a lot.

: 1177

01:04:33,180 --> 01:04:35,430

We talked about it and we're out

: 1178

01:04:39,680 --> 01:04:42,180

BEP Narrator: a black

executive perspective.