ep 113. Breaking the Mold: Confronting Queen Bee Syndrome in the Corporate Hive
In "Breaking the Mold: Confronting Queen Bee Syndrome in the Corporate Hive," we engage in a critical conversation about the challenges women face in male-dominated workplaces. Host Tony Tidbit, along with special guest Erika Bennett of Essence Ventures, explore the complexities of the Queen Bee Syndrome, where some women leaders, having navigated the masculine culture, may unintentionally hinder other women's advancement.
This episode sheds light on the double-bind faced by Black female executives, who confront not only gender barriers but also racial ones. We'll explore the nuances of these experiences, understanding the differences and similarities, and discussing strategies for women to advocate for themselves amidst sexism from all quarters.
Key Points:
- Dissecting the Queen Bee Syndrome: What fuels it in corporate America?
- The Double-Bind for Black Female Executives: Navigating gender and racial challenges.
- Strategies for Solidarity: How women can support each other in the workplace.
Notable Quotes:
- "Achieving success doesn't mean closing the door behind you." - Tony Tidbit
- "Empowerment is about lifting as we climb." - Erika Bennett
Show Notes with Timecodes:
- [00:03:00] Introduction to Queen Bee Syndrome and its impacts.
- [00:20:00] Erika Bennett's insights on women in leadership roles.
- [00:35:00] Challenges unique to Black female executives.
- [00:50:00] Strategies for fostering female solidarity in the workplace.
- [01:05:00] Audience Q&A session with Erika and Tony.
Transcript
a black executive perspective look man they
didn't get a chance to play chess they had to
::play Checker Let's talk about it t openly and
honestly there was a lot of smart kids there
::black executive perspective now my story is
not unique there's thousands of Professionals
::of color who have experiences like mine a black
executive perspective whether you're aware of it
::or not it's a topic that is often avoided we'll
discuss race and how it plays a factor and how we
::didn't even talk about this topic cuz we were
afraid a black executive perspective Queen be
::syndrome is a term used to describe a workplace
phenomenon in which a high-ranking female employee
::usually a manager initiates and excludes her
female subordinates often leading to hostile
::and uncomfortable work environment while the term
is often used to describe women in positions of
::power it can also refer to any situation in which
a person in a position of authority abuses their
::power to harm those beneath them in this episode
Erica Bennett will help us understand the signs
::symptoms and how to avoid being a victim welcome
to a black executive perspective podcast a safe
::space where we discuss all matters related to race
especially race in Corporate America I'm your host
::your guide your Mastro your sensei Tony tidbit
and I've been in the corporate game for over 30
::years so we're here to break down those Barriers
address the topic of race in the workplace so in
::this episode women's empowerment and the queen be
syndrome Erica Bennett will help us understand the
::queen be syndrome regarding women who pursue
individual success in a male dominating work
::setting by adjusting to a masculine culture and
disting themselves from other women usually their
::junior counterparts and listen at the end of the
day we all know women in leadership positions
::almost always struggle to get to where they are
and one would assume that they would naturally
::support other women in the same Quest however
in many corporate environments female leaders
::can intentionally and unintentionally make it
more difficult for their female colleagues to
::achieve the same Heights and for the female black
executive there exists even fewer opportunities
::for advancement and Leadership so how do the two
experience relate how do they differ how can women
::advocate for themselves in face of sexism from
men and women Erica Bennett welcome to a black
::executive perspective podcast thank you and thank
you for that wonderful intro you know Erica has
::been up since 6 o'clock in the morning working
on a new launch that they're doing so and she's
::in La so she's already had a long day so again
we're very appreciative of you being able to
::join a black executive perspective to talk about
a very important topic right um women empowerment
::and the queen be syndrome so before we dive into
it tell us a little bit about you Erica give us a
::little bit about your background Tony it's such
an honor to be here and thank you for having me
::and you know my days start at 5 or 6 a.m. every
day so um you know my body is sort of used to
::it so I appreciate um you having me on I I grew
up in Seattle Washington okay so um very kind of
::interesting background equal parts like West Coast
hip hop and REI like camping granola girl so I did
::it all um and I think it's just allowed me to
appreciate so many different ways to experience
::experience our world so that's sort of me growing
up and as I mentioned I went to Chicago I sort
::of feel like Chicago raised me in a way because
okay like I came into my own and developed my own
::worldview and my own sense of purpose and Mission
in college I had you know I was very fortunate to
::have incredible professors and incredible peers
who have now gone on to do wonderful things who um
::all were a part of that growth for me and then you
know about a year after graduation from college I
::moved to LA and my mission and purpose has always
been around representation for our people in media
::um that has looked very different I thought I
could do it through the casting office and realize
::I got to be at the network at the studio or I got
producer to really have like all the power right
::right right and I sort of Miss being creative so
that sort of sparked this whole Journey For Me of
::working across many different Industries working
with many different brands but all really in in
::service of trying to find ways to um accurately
and authentically represent uh the black
::experience here um both in the US and globally
that is awesome and and that's what we want to
::dive into today in the terms of the accurately and
you know diving into the black experience and and
::and again we can go into this a little bit when
we go into the queen bee syndrome you know and
::one of the questions and I'll I'll get to there
shortly um but is the queen be is it is it just
::for African-American people of color I mean I that
could probably could be something for any woman in
::terms of leadership is that correct well I think
you have to think about the very you know you you
::yourself kind of said it in your intro the number
of women that even kind of send to to a specific
::place in their career is limited um by many
different factors uh gender bias in the workplace
::the role of women you know in in culture and in
the home and in family um often is the woman that
::is making sacrifices making um career choices to
be you know to better support family making and
::decision planning um and so when we think about
women in general the the path to the Sea Suite
::or the path to these executive roles is is not an
easy one so I I I don't think it is something that
::is um specific to the black community I think it's
something that is much bigger and and much more
::focused on when we look at all of the hurdles that
women face getting to the top and what women have
::to do right either we have to make sacrifices
to or delay our family planning or we may have
::to show up differently in the workplace and I
think all of those then impact how how we end
::up interacting and how we relate to other people
in the workplace so right that's my take no no no
::it's good and and we're going to dive deeper into
that but I love that answer because you know we
::want to get an understanding um but also want to
get one final question to you an understanding of
::you like I said you're very accomplished um you
have a mission you've talked about you know real
::quickly about how Chicago raised you um you've
done a lot of things you've been um you know
::you gotten accolades from different organizations
or different Publications in terms of who you are
::the work that you do you talked a little bit about
how you know you thought you could be able to have
::more power in one area but then you knew that I
had to move to this area to to actually run it to
::have the power So speaking of that you have a lot
of talent you bring a lot to the table well what
::is one superpower that you wish that you could
have you know I don't like to sit in the world
::of lack I don't like to think about what I wish
I could have or what I wish I would have done um
::every you know I I believe our life is very much
by Design and every place that I am in is a series
::and a culmination of all the experiences I've
experienced along the way I mean I wish I was just
::overall a little bit more organized and better at
my calendar but I'm not but but I you know I I'm
::very grateful for my path and I'm very grateful
for the many different people who've taken me
::under their wing and mentored me and I'm now
grateful for the opportunity to take um work in
::the intersection of my my purpose and my passion
and what I think I am good at which is marketing
::and bring all those worlds together and live in
that um every single day and and live in that so I
::don't know that there's a superpower I wish I had
that I I don't have I don't know turn invisible
::or but I I really try to operate in the present
um and I think I don't know I'm just so grateful
::for what I do have right and it's I I don't think
about what I don't have and I don't try I try not
::to sit in a place of lack but really come come
from a place of abundance you know what so that's
::a great answer okay because at the end of the
day it is about looking at what you're blessed
::with versus what you're what you don't have right
and yeah and having that mindset of abundance you
::attract abundance so yeah and I also think you
know we just have to accept that we're human
::beings and that we are naturally evolutionary
beings and I I am very open very aware of where
::my blind spots are and as a leader I try to fill
my team with other leaders who are complimentary
::to me and complimentary to each other and so
we all as one team f in the blind spots sort
::of like a basketball team you know if you've got
somebody who's a really great long range shooter
::you got to have a great rebounder on the other
side right if you've got somebody who's really
::skilled at defense you've got to have someone
who's got hustle that can get back down the cour
::support for the fast break so um you know I think
it's just really important for leaders to think
::about um the ways that you can surround yourself
with expertise that you don't have and and that
::way again it's not lack it is um understanding
your blind spots understanding where you might
::have expertise coming into the team that is just
frankly better and I think good leaders know that
::and they build teams that way and it creates
Pathways for other people to grow into exactly
::well listen we we kind of gotten into it a little
bit so I love it I mean I love the warmup into you
::know going right into the episode so Erica are
you ready to have this conversation I'm ready
::to have it bring okay let's talk about it my girl
let's talk about it so you know one of the things
::I always want to do because obviously there's
terms that you know it's like when you go to a
::company and everybody talks in acronyms you know
we got to get the ab boo you know Blues together
::and you're like what are they talking about
right so here I always want to make sure that
::the audience follows along and understands so can
you just can you define what what is the queen be
::queen bee syndrome what does that mean well it's
a term that's been given to um women in senior
::positions um in any respective field um who uh May
themselves or push forward in the organization um
::you know gender bias um or may kind of want to
hoard all the the power for themselves um it's
::usually someone who experienced quite a bit of
success um in their career and it's typically
::used to describe women who are really trying to
defend that position um so what that could look
::like is um sort of um you know holding back other
people um those are some of the behaviors that are
::typically associated with the Sy um with a queen
be syndrome so so and again uh you know why would
::somebody do that so no and let's just back up a
little bit because you a few minutes ago you said
::Tony all the things that women have to go through
to get to where they want get to where they want
::to to be accomplished right they give up their
families they have to deal with you know being
::one of the only few from a gender standpoint they
have to deal with you know the stereotypes that
::people have already labeled on them you know and
we can keep going on and on and on and then they
::finally get there and then all of a sudden they're
playing I'm going to use your basketball analogy
::they're playing you know they're they're passing a
ball around the the perimeter of the of the court
::and they're not really trying to help anybody else
score so especially knowing that they went through
::all that why would they have this type of mindset
some people you know it's as a woman it's hard um
::you know you oftentimes have to show up and be
even more persistent even more like there's so
::much bias around around who women and who who we
how we should show up in the workplace um we we
::can't be this way or we're angry we can't be this
way or we're this and so I'm not defending Queen
::be syndrome but I am and I think it's important
that we all acknowledge the difficulty with which
::women in particular and in particular black women
have to show up in role just to get get halfway
::to where their male counterparts are we have to
show up strong and convicted and we have to be
::researched and we have to you know be buttoned
up and zipped up in how we present strategy and
::we have to be prepared to defend it and and so I I
think that a lot of times what happens is there's
::probably a subset of women who just don't who
lack the self-awareness to even understand that
::they're just doing what they've always done to
get to the level that they've done so and then
::there's probably a subset where it's maybe a
little bit more intentional and that comes with
::um deep rooted insecurity because women have
consistently throughout history and throughout
::our lives been told these are the spaces that
you are equipped to occupy and these are the
::spaces that you're not equipped to occupy and
so there's probably a mix of both but I think
::it really stems from having to fight every day
just to get the foot in the door just to be in
::the room to be heard to be um for your voice to
be understood for um for you to be respected in
::the same way as your male counterparts so and and
so where I struggle is that and let me tell you a
::quick little story sure so in which is it's it's
a different dynamic as being a male black versus
::being a female black right so I recognize even
though you know the doors that I wasn't a lot
::of doors open a lot of places the majority of
places I was the only black person especially
::as I got up into leadership positions okay so and
I understand women you know even if you look at
::the the the pay Equity you know males make more
money than women right and and and I don't my
::wife she works but at the end of the day you know
she you know my mindset is totally different than
::her mindset when it comes to our kids and stuff
to that nature in terms of her having a career so
::there's it's not apples versus apples okay so
however I remember and I'm just going to give
::you you know my little story here I remember being
in an organization again I'm in advertising sales
::you know I've been at the VP level I I didn't
see a lot of people look like me okay and I
::remember going to this event no I take this back
I remember this company was trying to recruit me
::to come over and when I came over and I met with
the chief Revenue officer um there was a another
::black guy all right and he was a VP there right
and you know and obviously you know how it goes
::right when you go where and they they're like Yeah
Joe works here too so in other words it's like is
::we got we got a black VP too all right that you
so but whatever whatever whatever whatever right
::so I I I saw I waved at he waved at me but then I
saw the guy at some event and I saw him and again
::there wasn't a lot of other people of color there
so I went up to him to have a conversation and he
::was really standoffish he was like you know he had
a force field around like he really didn't want to
::talk to me and but he was chatting with everybody
else but he didn't and I'm not talking to people
::C he talking other but he he didn't really want
to like warm up to me and I really I really I
::mean it was I was shocked at that because in my
position I've always tried to help other people
::you know either break into the industry move up in
the industry provide counsel to them in terms of
::how to navigate the industry of corporate America
America so I I I've seen that um on from a male
::standpoint so so where I struggle is is when I I I
get it that women have to go through a lot however
::knowing that you went through a lot and let's just
back up because you just said something you said
::earlier about how you know your blind spots but
your thing is about helping your team be able
::to play helping them become leaders you fought
through a you you had to bust down a lot of doors
::you had had to deal with a bunch of so why are
you more open to saying hey I'm going bring people
::along versus somebody else who's like nah work you
know figure it out yourself yeah I mean one I've
::I've seen the value in it I I've seen the value
in it um but two um I've done the work I think
::that um I always tell my team I work for them and
not the other way around so that sort of servant
::leadership is really critical I think a lot of
times people are giving these positions of power
::and they're not taught how to like actually be a
good boss actually be a good coach and actually be
::a good Mentor and I think there is something so
deep seated and deep rooted in terms of our own
::sense of selfworth Our Own sense of value value
and purpose and a lot of people just haven't done
::the work they have not done the work on themselves
and so what you have are deeply insecure people
::right who've been told their entire life you're
not supposed to be here we're gonna make it so
::hard to get here and then when they get into these
positions of power um it it becomes their undoing
::in a way because all of their insecurities just
come flowing out um I I I need to be at the top
::I'm threatened by anyone else who might seem like
they could take my position at any point in time
::um that just comes from just such a deep place of
insecurity and it's a place that I've just done
::the work on I don't have it or you know I have
my own insecurities but with respect to team and
::bringing people along and allowing people to shine
it's um I have the mindset that I work for them
::anyway so it allows me to it allows me to approach
it just differently it really does so how much of
::this is a character flaw so in other words that
you know people who are in leadership positions
::right at the end of the day they're really out
for themselves they've never they're they're
::they've never been a team oriented individual ual
versus people who are team or oriented individuals
::no matter what position that they get they're
always going to be focused on the teams so do you
::see couldn't this be just and I don't want to say
it's only a character flaw but could you see this
::being part of a character flaw absolutely right
absolutely it can be a part of a character flaw
::listen my approach to leadership is very different
and a lot of times people mistake my my kindness
::for weakness and so they try to exploit that
and take advantage of that so I I realize that
::there are other consequences that come along with
being principled in my approach to leadership and
::to Bringing people along in their career Journeys
right and um so it absolutely is a charact it can
::be a character FL on the other side of that
right and it it's you know we really have to
::start to examine what are the triggers what are
the inputs that are driving the insecurity that
::allow us to treat others the way that we treat
them when we get to positions of power and I I
::had to do it myself early on in my career I was
a firsttime VP and I had this team and it came
::from a really good place but I was was a hard
boss I was tough MH it came because I wanted I
::wanted this team to just be looked at and seen
as the best but the real underlying insecurity
::was I didn't want the department to fail and once
I got once I understood that that that was about
::my own insecurity around failure as opposed to
you know um you know wanting to set everybody
::up for success as I articulated it allowed me
to show up in a different and more human way
::in the workplace and I learned it later I mean I
was tough for a couple years it was really hard
::to work for me so when you say tough like what
do you mean give me some examples of tough you
::know I was just really tough in terms of like
I wasn't mean or disrespectful or any of that
::so it wasn't it wasn't a dis respect thing but
um I didn't create enough room for failure and
::growth and learning through failure um I wanted
us to just get it right and and and so I put in
::a lot of fail safes so that we got it right
you know what I mean and so that the business
::wouldn't the pipeline wouldn't go away and so that
we get hired for more jobs and so that we wouldn't
::just be competing with other black agencies
we'd actually be be comp meeting with every
::agency right right and we did we accomplished
all of that and I'm so proud of that the what
::is incredible the how we got there for the first
year or two was intense and guess what it drained
::me it exhausted me as a leader it it and when you
say it exhausted you as a leader like what do you
::mean by exhausted you as a leader it exhausted
me to to constantly be like maniacal about every
::little word and comma and period and hat every
little you know detail when in reality I had
::a superstar Allstar team and I should have just
been really confident in the work that they could
::do right and so you know a couple years into the
role I really started to understand that concept
::and again it came down to me doing the my own
work my own self-discovery to realize oh I have
::a deep-seated fear of failing failing this team
failing the company and failing myself self and
::that I need to address because we're not failing
we're doing very well financially and you know
::we're doing very well in the industry and once
I sort of let go of that there was more freedom
::for people and we flourished more because this
person had a great idea and we weren't picking it
::apart we were adding to it to make it better right
this person was really good and really tapped into
::social media and even though they were a junior
coordinator I'm going to let them run with this
::because they can add value in ways that no other
agency could so as soon as I started to kind of
::shed the fears of failure and really embrace the
um embrace the abundance that could come from
::giving people the freedom to just do what they
do and if we fail along the way we fail along
::the way we we learn we pick ourselves back up and
we keep going so do you think we never broke it so
::so do you think this was just something that you
discovered or do you or you went through or do
::you think this is something that the majority of
people in a leadership position at a certain level
::go goes through I think I think a lot of a lot
of people at a certain level especially when you
::get in the sea Suite I'm here it's hard there's a
lot very high expectation and a lot that the team
::my team and that I have to deliver as part of an
executive team right I'm responsible for ensuring
::that the that a brand that has been around for 50
years that I adore and other brands that have now
::come into the family that they succeed so it's
a lot of pressure it is a lot of pressure and
::I think um some people don't ever learn that um
until they get to the higher levels and that's
::when you have dynamics that are that are like what
we have dubbed the queen bee syndrome yeah I I so
::number one thank you for sharing that number two
I can I'm and I'm pretty sure my audience a lot of
::people in the audience would is it would relate
to what you said especially if they've been in
::leadership positions because to be honest Erica
I did the exact same thing when I first got into
::leadership position right it was about my fear
failure it was about I and and it was more um
::and I didn't think this way at the time but I knew
it was part of the motivation I'm the only black
::leader here I never said that I never you know but
I know you know from a unconscious standpoint it
::was part of the motivation right so I can't fail
right and so what did I do I microman I want to
::say micromanage but I didn't let my team fail okay
and so I held their hands all the way through and
::then to be fair so but to your point there was
an Awakening there was a reflection when I was
::like you know what they're smart they're Talent
let them just do their thing and just trust them
::and then when I was able to do that that's when
not only that we continue to grow but they grew
::and then they became VPS or whatever the case
may be right so so number one I thank you for
::sharing that but that's the point I want to get
to is is part of that because there's not a lot
::of few there's not a lot of black female CMOS okay
so is that the added pressure that you dealt with
::when you when you're working with your team yeah I
mean we were we were an all black team when I was
::when I first became a VP we were all black and
yeah there was so much of our racial identity
::was wrapped up into it right like and a lot of
it was me really playing to bias it was um well
::they don't they don't understand the power of the
black dollar which is very true they expect us to
::operate in a certain way because we are an all
black team they expect for these things and so I
::was really trying to demonstrate that you could
have an all black team that was going to overd
::deliver every time that was going to just kill it
um that was just as good or better as any agency
::not just the black agencies like those were the
narratives I was trying to overcome and I I sent
::I because that was the first first time I was
really fully operating in my professional and
::personal mission I had a high desire to make sure
that the industry understood um the importance and
::weight of the audience and that they respected it
and that they honored it and that the work I did
::was a forcing function for that respect and for
that honor so um yeah I felt like very heavy on
::my shoulders you're carrying a lot of stuff still
yeah I still feel that way but time and experience
::has taught me that there are many different paths
to the same outcome and that you know I still got
::to let my team grow and learn even though there's
there's you know pretty pretty high states there
::so based on and and again thanks for sharing that
because that is a lot to carry okay that's a a
::lot to carry and you talked about the different
thoughts that uh you know this is a black team so
::you know the different narratives that people
probably were thinking or you know different
::stereotypes that were probably because it is an
all black team so that's a lot to deal with okay
::so it's interesting right sometimes you work in
an area where you're the only black person then
::you work in an area where you work in you the
black team okay and it carries so many different
::weights and thoughts it's just amazing right it's
so what would you recommend for the ladies that's
::out there that let's be fair they work their butt
off let's just go back to what we talked about in
::the beginning they deal with a lot they they
they you know overcame a lot to get to their
::position how would you help them understand or
how would you help them not fall into the queen
::bee syndrome and be more of about the entire team
and help other women be able to pull themselves
::up I think you have to go inward first you know I
think um that's what I ultimately had to do was go
::Inward and when you say go inward what like what
do you mean go inward I mean self-examine self do
::the self-work do the do the the work internally
to understand what are my fears what are my bias
::es you know what am I solving for as an
individual so that you can show up as your
::best self um I don't think I would have gotten
to a place where how I operate now if I didn't
::go Inward and understand okay this is about
your fear of failure this is about you caring
::more on your shoulders than you actually need
to that's more this is a an industry issue and
::you don't need to take the whole entertainment
industry and put it on your back and March it
::down the road that through consistent meaningful
work across a variety of different Entertainment
::Properties and projects you can actually show that
iteratively versus let's just try to take on the
::whole project the whole problem all at once so it
was a lot of like self-work and self reflection
::um and then it's continued self-awareness as I
Ascend um I'm constantly checking for biases and
::I'm not perfect I still have them I'm constantly
checking for my insecurities I'm still have them
::I'm not perfect but I think if you understand
like I said to be human is to be evolutionary
::um so that's the first step is to go Inward and
the second the second step is to leave room for
::failure and you got to just be comfortable
with falling down a million times and be just
::as comfortable with getting up a million in one
times um and until I learned how to sit in the
::discomfort of failure and sit in the discomfort of
ambiguity and all that comes with what I perceive
::as failure um it I I couldn't understand how to
not allow that to be the The Guiding Light that
::bring that you know that drives me every day
towards success and the third thing is I think
::you have to reframe your definition of failure
is it is it truly a failure if this doesn't
::happen so really getting crisp on what failure
even looks like right right I had such high
::standards I still do for myself that like if I
delivered a document and just was like did not
::have the right eye dotted or t cross that I was
like guys what are we doing what are we even doing
::do you know what I mean so I okay failure might
be we didn't hit this number or whatever but is
::it really this thing over here that's probably not
a failure so you know again I would say um going
::inward right I would say um being uncomfortable
sitting in that discomfort a failure and the third
::being leaving even leaving room and reframing
definition of failure could be is would would
::would would um the makeup of your team in terms
of you coaching them and getting the best out of
::them and they become a players in the organization
is that a success absolutely absolutely absolutely
::right I did an interview once and they asked
me like what is your biggest success everything
::you've done and I was like looking around the
industry and seeing people who started out as
::like interns and Junior coordinators who are now
running multi-million dollar film campaigns or who
::are now running whole comms departments or who
are now um who have stepped out into the world
::of Entrepreneurship all of that is is um is off
your tree right L my mind and I you know don't
::want to take credit and take credit but um no
but it's incredible right so if you help other
::individuals that's the point here right right
if you help other visuals individuals grow and
::they become leaders right that's a success as well
right isn't your bosses or the company looking I
::always taught my team this it's like look at the
end of the day it's it's not that I'm I'm gonna
::help build your brand so I'm gonna not just keep
you under my thumb I'm gonna tell everybody how
::great you are but here's the kicker you need to
also build your brand because this is when I know
::building your brand is when I say something about
you gab and somebody say oh gab she's awesome or
::Tony your team is great you know everybody in your
team you see my point here that's a success as
::well right so I think that's where we want to get
everyone in terms of empowering and helping other
::individuals take it to the next level well and
we don't often Place enough value on that right
::like I think we think of success as did we hit
our Revenue numbers did we hit this did we hit
::that one of the more interesting barometers of
success or kpis I was interviewing for a role
::and I asked them like you know what's your kind of
goal on the people's side and they said I want to
::get that phone call from when the person leaves
my company goes to the next job and the boss at
::the next job calls me and goes wow this person is
an absolute star because the reality is we're not
::all going to stay stay in the same place forever
you know no our interest change our needs in terms
::of professional development change so how how
then can we think about um getting people ready
::for the next thing and and speak like and speaking
of that how how so your love because obviously you
::you've had a lot of different roles at different
organizations so how can an organization get more
::women um in leadership positions how can they
cultivate and train especially women of color
::different backgrounds um so there there's less of
a queen be syndrome and it's more about putting
::more people more women in positions that they
can be able to fly and grow themselves yeah I
::mean I've been really fortunate um worked under
some pretty Dynamic women and black women I work
::under I work with Dynamic black women every day
so I'm very fortunate I think that um you know I
::go back to what I said earlier about why I think
that behavior may show up um among women or among
::women of color and it I truly believe it a lot
of it has to do with the way that women have to
::fight and so removing some of those obstacles
and biases right and you know you talked about
::how can we coach women I was just as qualified
if not more than a lot of my male counterparts
::and was not given the same opportunity so it
wasn't a coaching issue it was it was an access
::issue it was a sponsorship issue so when you say
access sponsorship is issue be a little bit more
::specific like what do you mean meetings someone
in the room going we we should give Erica this
::opportunity somebody talking on your behalf
we should yeah or someone kind of working to
::co-c conspire in the same way that men get these
opportunities so I think clear the path women are
::qualified yes sure coaching but also acknowledging
when they are qualified putting them up for the
::role and not making it so so difficult to get
into these positions is critical right and then
::of course there's work that needs to be done on
the individual but I think when you have a group
::of people who've been conditioned over time to to
believe a certain thing about themselves they are
::fighting again they are fighting an internal
Battle of their own insecurities and and you
::know what that is an excellent point and and and
that's the the thing that's not spoken about a lot
::right right is when you show up you already have
a bunch of baggage that you have to deal with all
::right so excellent excellent thought there so we
talked about superpowers earlier and you said hey
::you know what I really you know I'm just I'm I'm
blessed and I you know it's all about abundance
::the you wanted to hear no no no no no no it's all
good but I'm gonna go right back to that a little
::bit right so for my audience who's listening
to a black executive perspective the female
::the lady who is bringing everything to the table
they they're playing chess not Checkers they're
::working hard they they're they're building their
brand within the organization um they aspire to
::be where uh Erica Bennett is they want to be CMO
or CEO cro whatever or run their own business what
::the case may be what what three or four bullets
would you give them knowing all knowing there's
::a bunch of tank traps knowing there's a bunch
of stuff that they going to have to overcome be
::traps everywhere there's going to be a million
traps right there going to be a million traps
::all right we know that they know that so how how
can they navigate give them some some feedback
::some background four or five bullets in terms how
they could do that I think first of all um like
::kind of surrendering to the process I spent years
years even in more recent roles be like what what
::am I doing what is happening and now at the
role I sit in where I've gotta I'm probably
::a rare CMO because I've done almost every job in
my department but I've got to not only understand
::what everyone does but then figure out how all
of that moves our business and Company objectives
::forward um so the years I spent like huh how did
I up been social of all places and now social is
::a critical part of our business we published well
Essence is a publisher um right so so they need
::to be a student of the business understand the
surrender to the process surrender to the process
::this doesn't mean you throw intentionality out the
window but I think it means you can um understand
::where you want to get and it's okay to kind of
take a windy road to get there it's not always
::linear corre a really great mentor of mine said
you should be thinking of your career like a
::suitcase so if you're CML what are the things in
each pocket and in each part of the compartment
::of the suitcase do you need in order to tell a
story so I maybe like three years ago started
::reading the job description of a CMO and I'm like
oh and I highlighted okay well I'm not quite there
::yet on this I'm not quite there on this I'm not
quite there on this and I basically turn that
::into my learning agenda at these companies and
I'm like okay I I need more experience running
::a budget of this size what what could that look
like to do that and really partnering with my
::managers and leaders to say hey I want to I want
to step up and own that um so say tell them what
::you want be straight up let them know where you
want to go yeah and and uh you don't have to say
::I'm trying to be the CMO one day I'm trying to
have your job but what you could say is here are
::some things I'm really interested here's some
skill sets I'm really interested in building
::out and this is where I need your support and the
good manager is like you know you could use your
::review you could use your one-on ones the good
managers really appreciate that you're thinking
::about your own career and taking it into your
hands and coming to them with a road map and a
::plan hey that project that I heard about in the
staff meeting yeah remember when we talked about
::like I'm really I think I can do that and here's
how that connects so I think surrendering to the
::process being super open under and but being
intentional right understanding what skill sets
::you need and treating you know every job every
role having a learning agenda and having sort of
::like these are the things I want to accomplish and
get out of it I still have a learning agenda and
::my CMO role um we're not I'm never done learning
and I have a list of all the things that I want
::to accomplish that I made when I joined and you
know scratching those off slowly but surely um
::and then I think um understanding when it's time
to go and understanding when you're just really
::uncomfortable that is so can you just spend
a couple minutes on that real quick because
::I think that's where the majority of us fail all
right not knowing when it's time to cut out yeah
::okay well I also think under you got to know the
difference between the two because there have been
::times where I've probably cut out and I should
have stayed and there are times where oh I stayed
::way too long right and neither of those are good
right so again having that road map having that
::agenda being very intentional about what you want
to give give to the organization what you want to
::get out of the organization before you leave helps
you understand it's time to go I've been I've had
::jobs where I was enroll for one year and I was
like you know what I got what I needed I'm out
::and it was intentional and purposeful and it
was and I had a clear so when I'm talking to
::these recruiters there's a narrative there it's
not just like I peeled out because I hated it
::you know um and then there are roles there are
companies where I switched roles after two years
::so you know my time at YouTube's a great example
of that I got really great experience there
::I mean marketing strategy no one does it like
YouTube so it's was very very um impactful for
::me I spent two years on social and then you know
our business priorities shifted and it was time
::for me to move into something else and this role
working with communities and creators was like a
::huge passion point for me right and so I I think I
think you have to just know and then at a certain
::point I was like okay where else can I go nowhere
else to go maybe time to peel out and I went back
::to my list and I'm like look at all the things
launches successful shows for YouTube business
::impact marketing impact personal brand impact okay
this might be a good time awesome you know um I
::really appreciate you sharing in because at the
end of the day there's somebody I know this for
::a fact I know this for a fact I don't know their
names I don't know what part of the country that
::they're in I don't know what they do for a job
they may be in high school or they could be you
::know 50 years old looking for something else or
you know looking for a change or a bump in their
::career somebody's going to hear what you said
and they're going to put it in action and they're
::going to make it happen and you know why because
they see you and they know hey there's somebody
::out there who's gotten to where I want to go and
they look like me it's not going to be easy lot
::of tank traps lot of stuff along the way right but
I see Erica she seems she talked about helping and
::empowering her team I don't have to be the queen
bee syndrome you know I can be able to you know
::understand the process throughout the company be
able to intentionally let people know where I want
::to go go I love the suitcase analogy right what
pieces are missing what what do I need to put in
::this pocket right here to make sure I have a full
suitcase and then I love the last thing you said
::you know understanding when it's time to move
on or making sure you're not leaving too early
::um because there may be still things that you have
to to to do to to get to where you want to go yeah
::what better way to learn than on someone's time
that dime I think yeah it's so true right um final
::thoughts Erica final thoughts um I think getting
clear early about the type of leader you want to
::be and staying unwavering in that is critical
and I think then that allows you to show up in
::the best way possible it allows you to support
people's career their career aspirations um it
::helps with your own um and you know I think that's
the most important thing is just going within and
::figure out who you want to be and how you want
to show up in the world and then actually do
::that okay well number one we really appreciate
you today you provided us a lot of value a lot
::of thoughts and obviously it's been a long day for
you so really appreciate I know and you got to go
::back you know you got stuff you still got to do so
Erica Bennett love you a lot thanks a lot wishing
::you nothing but mad success what a pleasure
thank you so much well I hope you really enjoyed
::as I did uh black a black executive perspective
podcast episode women's empowerment and the Queen
::B syndrome so our tidbit today is and it's from
Stephanie Courier founder of inter igoris women
::and Stephanie said I've always subscribed to the
belief that the best leader is not the one who has
::the most followers but the one who creates the
most leaders I've strive every day to create a
::more conscious confident and Soulful leaders who
on return will build a better world for us all and
::that's by Stephan Le Cotler so I hope you enjoyed
this session of women's empowerment and the queen
::bee syndrome please leave us some feedback let us
know that you really like this this was horrible
::Tony you know you should have just let her talk by
yourself right give us all type of feedback right
::what's some of the things that you learned today
what questions do you still have right what's some
::solutions that you may uh have in terms of the
queen bee syndrome and women's empowerment so
::please provide us your thoughts and feedback
at a black executive perspective.com and then
::what we'll do in our next episode we'll go through
that feedback answer your questions and eventually
::we're going to have you come on and join me here
as a guest on a black EXE cutive perspective.com
::so just recognize you can always find a black
executive perspective podcast wherever you get
::your podcast come back and join us and let's talk
about it thank you for tuning in to this episode
::of Tony tidbit a black executive perspective
and for joining in today's conversation with
::every story We Share every conversation we Foster
and every barrier we address we can ignite the
::Sparks that bring about lasting change and this
carries us one step closer to transforming the
::face of corporate America if today's episode
resonated with you consider subscribing and
::leaving us a rating or review on Apple podcast
Spotify or wherever you get your podcast share
::this episode with your circle and with your
support we can reach more people and tell more
::stories
