Reflecting on Race, Bias, and Continuous Learning

Courteney Mitchell: 00:00:00

So I think a lot of white people don't think about race,

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and I think that's a real problem.

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And I think that until You're

willing to get, it's like fitness,

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like not to bring it back.

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Cause you know, we all know I love to work

out, but like, if you don't, if you're

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working out and you're not uncomfortable,

you're not getting stronger.

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And I think the same holds true for like

life, like you have to sometimes put

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yourself into uncomfortable spaces in

order to get stronger, to grow, to learn.

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And I think that a lot of people don't.

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People don't like to be uncomfortable.

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Tony Tidbit: We'll discuss race and how it

plays a factor and how we didn't even talk

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about this topic because we were afraid.

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BEP Narrator: A Black

Executive Perspective.

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Tony Tidbit: Welcome to a Black Executive

Perspective podcast, a safe space where

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we discuss all matters related to race,

especially race in corporate America.

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I'm your host, Tony Tidbit.

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And so we're live at WNHU 88.

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7 on the Richter dial at

the University of New Haven.

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We want to thank them for hosting

a Black Executive Perspective

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podcast in their fabulous studio.

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Really appreciate the partnership.

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Go Chargers.

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And for you, don't forget to check out

our partners, CODE M Magazine, whose

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mission is to save the Black family

by first making Saving the black man.

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Check them out at CODE M magazine.

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com.

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So in the article, why it can be

so hard to talk about race that

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was published a few weeks ago in

Psychology Today, Dr., Monica T.

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Williams and Sonia Faber.

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discuss the complexities,

complexities of racial discourse.

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They state, and I quote, "When it comes

to talking about race, there's a big

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difference between the way white families

and black families approach the subject.

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Studies have found that white children are

typically taught from a young age not to

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discuss race, that it's something taboo.

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Something we shouldn't talk about.

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But the truth is, ignoring the problem

of race doesn't make it go away.

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It only reinforces existing

systems of racial inequity.

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On the other hand, black families

don't have the luxury of ignoring race.

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They know that their children

will be profiled and treated

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differently because of race.

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From others often as early as preschool,

they understand that talking about

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race is not only necessary, but also

empowering as it allows them to understand

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and navigate the world around them.

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It's not that white people are bad or

racist, it's just they are socialized

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not to notice these problems.

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Most have been taught to see the

world in a certain way, and that way

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doesn't include an understanding of

the ways racism and bias cause harm.

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White people are taught not to

see the racism that is right in

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front of them on a daily basis."

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Today.

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Our guest, Courteney Mitchell,

will share her personal journey

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navigating the complexities of racial

discussions, her experience with racial

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awakening, and the ongoing process

of educating and self reflection.

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Courteney Mitchell, welcome to a Black

Executive Perspective podcast, my sister.

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Courteney Mitchell: Tony, thank

you so much for having me.

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I'm so excited to be here.

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Tony Tidbit: Well, thank you, Courteney,

for coming on and talking about, you

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know, a very I will, I will say a topic

that we need to talk about a lot more.

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So I appreciate you coming on and

willing to jump in and share your story.

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Um, but before we jump in, let's

get a little bit about you.

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Tell us where you're from, where

you're living at, and a little

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bit about your background.

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Courteney Mitchell: Sure.

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Uh, I've lived in Massachusetts

for most of my life.

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I'm currently in Boston.

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Um, mom to two little cats.

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Uh, they're, they just turned six.

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Um, Adopted them from the rest.

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We rescued them from the mean

streets of Newark, New Jersey.

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Uh, Allie and Ava.

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Um, I work in advertising sales

in full time for my full time job.

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And then I have side hustles.

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I teach fitness, uh, around

Boston and, um, do production

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work on large scale events.

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Tony Tidbit: Okay.

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Awesome.

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And look, you got your

Boston gear on, right?

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Celtics, you know, going

for the win tonight, right?

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They're going for the championship win.

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Courteney Mitchell: Well, Tony, I,

it's 6 1 7 and then what a more, you

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know, could there be a more perfect

day for the Celtics to win banner 18?

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I was actually in the building on 6 1

,: 2008

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um, in game six, so I, I've given up,

go, I used to go to all of the games.

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Uh, now I, I watched from the couch,

you know, Once you get older, the 9 p.

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m.

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start time doesn't really

work out so well anymore.

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No, it's so true.

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Tony Tidbit: It's so true, right?

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But you're going to be up all

night, because that's your team.

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You're going to be rooting for them,

even if the game started at midnight.

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So you'll be there, right?

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Courteney Mitchell: And

they're so I'll be there.

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They're, they're, they're, they're

very fun to watch this year.

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It's a, you know, you get a, I feel

like you get like attached to teams.

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Like I'm definitely very attached to

the, the 08 guys, you know, Paul Pierce,

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Kevin Garnett, Ray Allen, Rondo, Perk,

um, and you know, the cast of characters

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that, that helped them win then.

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But this team is really, really

fun to watch when they're on

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there, they play great basketball.

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Tony Tidbit: Well, let's see.

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Um, you know, look, I love the Celtics.

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I love their team.

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I was, um, I like Luka Donic a lot.

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So I was rooting for them just

because they're in the beginning.

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I thought from the

beginning Boston would win.

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So tonight could be the night, you

know, where, you know, Bean town is,

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is, is, uh, you know, popping champagne.

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So we'll see how it plays itself out.

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Courteney Mitchell: Well, you know,

Tony, I, champagne is one of my

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other favorite things and I got some

cases in my closet down here, so.

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Tony Tidbit: All right, my friend.

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Well, listen, let me ask you this,

obviously we've talked, why did you want

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to come on a Black Executive Perspective

podcast to talk about this topic?

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Courteney Mitchell: Well, I, you and I

used to work together at Warner Media R.

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I.

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P.

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Um, and I think when George Floyd

was murdered in: 2020

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didn't really know what to do.

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And you started those

conversations on race, which gave.

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People from all walks of life within

the company, a venue to be able to

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have these difficult conversations

and learn how to have these difficult

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conversations with other people.

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And, um, I really miss those.

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And I was really happy to be able

to sort of come on here because

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I've, I've honestly, Tony, I've

learned so much from you in the

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years that we've known each other.

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Um, so I, I'm really happy to come

on here and sort of talk about.

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Um, the impact that all this learning has

had on me personally and professionally.

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Tony Tidbit: Well, thank you, my friend.

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I appreciate that.

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So you ready to talk about it?

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Courteney Mitchell: Yeah.

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Let's dig in.

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Tony Tidbit: All right.

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Let's, let's talk about it.

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Right.

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And you know, one of the things when I

read that article in Psychology Today, um,

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it was, you know, it really, I think it's

something that I would, I want, hopefully

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our, all of our audience can go check

out because it's really very eye opening.

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Um, and it's something that

we've dealt with for centuries,

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um, our fear to talk about race.

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Right.

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And, you know, I remember going back, um,

you know, back when the George Floyd thing

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happened and, you know, I got everyone

together and I was just listening to

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people and, um, and you know, people were

saying, I didn't know this was going on.

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You know, I wasn't aware of these things.

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I didn't have a clue, and these were

white people, our white colleagues

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that were saying these things.

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And I was looking, I didn't

say nothing, but I was looking,

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I'm like, how don't you know?

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Right?

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You can see these things, but

as, you know, um, you know, Dr.

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uh, Williams and Dr.

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Faber stated, if, if you're brought

up not to talk about race, it's taboo,

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and you're not, uh, nobody's teaching

you to be aware of these things.

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You wouldn't know and I know

people like that's not true.

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They shouldn't know.

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No, they wouldn't know because these

things don't affect them Right.

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So Courteney, let's let's

back up a little bit.

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Tell us a little bit about where you grew

up You know, you know cuz look my wife

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She grew up outside of Boston, Maynard,

Mass, okay, which was a small town,

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which, you know, Maynard, Mass, right?

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And she said it was one

black family in a whole town.

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And she wasn't exposed to the

things that I was exposed to.

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So talk to us a little bit about your

background and how diversity either played

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a role or didn't play a role in your life.

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Courteney Mitchell: Yeah, so

I'm from a small town in Western

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Mass, probably not unlike Maynard.

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It's called Belchertown.

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It's a small town.

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It's halfway between Amherst where UMASS

Amherst is and Springfield, which used to

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be a crown jewel of a city in Western mass

in the early part of the 20th century.

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There was very little diversity.

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Uh, I can count on 1 hand, the

number of black people that

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I went to high school with.

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Um, and then I remember going to college

in, in: 1997

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by, you know, black people, people

of different cultures, people from

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different countries, um, the, you know,

the international students, gay people.

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I mean, in the 1990s, that, that was.

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I mean, you were not, there were

two, you were either straight

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or closeted in the 1990s.

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There were very, I don't think

there were a lot of people that

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were really openly gay then.

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Um, and so I, you know, I was raised to

believe that, um, we treat everybody the

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way we want to be treated, regardless

of what they look like or, you know,

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disabilities or anything like that.

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We're just kind to everybody.

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And I really loved being thrown

into an environment where I got

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to learn about so many different

cultures and types of people.

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Um, going to Northeastern and

Boston, um, in the late nineties.

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Tony Tidbit: That's awesome.

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So growing up, uh, what was

the town you grew up in again?

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It's

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Courteney Mitchell: called

Belchertown, uh, you can see it if

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you're on the Mass Pike, it used

to be exit 7 and now it's exit 54.

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Tony Tidbit: Okay, so Belchertown, right?

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Not a lot of diversity, you can count

on one hand of, of the students in

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your high school that were African

American, what kids would be.

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So tell us a little bit about Belchertown.

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What was your idea about

race at that time frame?

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And I get it, your parents

brought you up, treat everybody

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the same, blah, blah, blah.

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And a lot of people say that, right?

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And their parents probably

did teach them that.

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But going out and experiencing and

seeing things can be totally different.

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So talk a little bit about your,

based on how you grew up, what was

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your awareness when it came to race?

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Courteney Mitchell: Honestly, Tony, and

I thought a lot about this when we were

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talking about doing this didn't really

I didn't I knew like my mom talked to me

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about when she was a teenager when Emmett

Till was murdered and how seeing the

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image of him on in print really impacted

her and made her, you know, a believer

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in the civil rights movement in the 60s.

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Um, but I didn't really, I didn't

really ever think about it.

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I mean, it was funny because like, I

think back now to like, in the 90s, like.

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Like the hip hop culture emerged.

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I loved hip hop music.

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I was into Tupac.

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I listened to like TLC SWV Salt N Pepa.

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I mean I can still rap every word

to Shoop I don't remember what I ate

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yesterday, but you put on that song.

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I know every word Um brandy monica,

like the music that I listen to

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Was very diverse, but I didn't it

from like an interpersonal level.

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I really didn't ever think about it

Like I said, it's so weird to say

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now like framing that now like what

kind of idiot is this girl like?

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But it just wasn't something that was

like On my radar at the time, like,

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I knew about the civil, I learned

about the civil rights movement.

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I learned about, you know, the civil

war and slavery and, you know, and

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it was 1 of those things where it's

like, oh, civil rights movement.

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We've everything got fixed.

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This is we're happy.

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Everyone's everything's great.

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And I think that, um, my.

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Personal awakening from, from that

came in like the tens when we started

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to have all of those publicized, like

Michael Brown, Eric Garner, Sandra Bland.

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Those were the things that really were

like, Oh, maybe everything is not fixed.

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And I remember thinking, seeing

some of like the Philando

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Castile shooting broke my heart.

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And I remember thinking if this is all

these things that are happening and now

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we've got phones to record everything,

how many things have happened in the

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last You know, 50 years that we don't

know about because we didn't have

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the technology to record everything.

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And that I, the thought, like, thinking

about framing it that way, I was like,

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oh, this is, this is definitely, we got

some, we have, we have got problems here.

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And then I think in that, at that time.

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You know, I, I started to look at

the spaces that I was in, like, my

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gym and, you know, the classes that

I was taking and my workplaces.

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And then I started to notice because

again, like, I was always taught.

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Oh, you don't see color.

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Like, and I'm like, well, that was when

I started to realize, like, you have

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to, you have to see color because if

we're missing color in these spaces,

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why and what do we have to do to make.

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This a more accessible,

comfortable space for everybody.

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And I remember having conversations

with some of my black friends and

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one of my best friends from college.

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I love this girl to this day.

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We are still very good friends.

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I remember her like, and people, this

is the thing, Tony, I don't think that

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people ever talked about this, but it's

also possible because I never asked.

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And I remember asking her

about her experiences.

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And she told me a story about

getting pulled over by the

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police, driving while black.

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And.

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The officer said to her, I could

do whatever I wanted to you and

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no one would ever believe you.

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And this is coming, this

girl is like Wharton Business

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School, like brilliant girl.

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And like to hear that she had

gone through that, I was floored.

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Then I started having conversations

with people at the gym who were like,

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Oh no, we've never felt comfortable

at this gym because of X, Y, and Z.

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And I was horrified.

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I'm like, well, what can I do to help

make this, Like, again, like the safe

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space for everybody because I don't

like we have this community here.

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And I mean, I think that looking

back and again, hindsight being

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2020 and framing it is, is that it's

really hard to be uncomfortable.

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And I think that thinking

about these things.

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Makes white people very uncomfortable.

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And I remember I was, I, you know,

I've I'm a member of the D.A.R.

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One of the reasons I joined the

was because I know it has a history

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of not being the most welcoming.

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And I think that you have 2 choices when

you're faced with something like that.

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You can be like, well, I'm not doing that,

or you can do it and try to change it and.

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I remember being in a meeting with some

of my DAR sisters and they were like,

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what does race have to, I'm like, well,

it has everything to do with it because

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you have to look at like the whole system.

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Tony Tidbit: So court court

real quick though, just so

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everybody's on the same page.

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When you say DAR, what is that?

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Courteney Mitchell: That is the

Daughters of the American Revolution.

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So, the D.

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A.

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R., it's a great organization.

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The way it was framed to me, it was like,

it's a networking group for history nerds.

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To be a member, you have to trace

your lineage back to, um, someone

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who fought for the patriots

in the American Revolution.

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Which, you know, And that's the other

awakening I had is that, like, thinking

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about genealogy and that was my pandemic

hobby in: 2020

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a disadvantage because you run into the

brick wall of slavery where there were

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no records, there's no records for black

ople for the most part before: 1870

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And that's one of the things

that I'm hoping, you know, to

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be able to have an impact on.

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I'm doing some of their genealogy

courses to be able to help, um, use

302

: 00:16:19

DNA to connect people when there's an

absence of historical paper, paper trail.

303

: 00:16:26

Um, but I think that again, it goes

back to the fact that people just

304

: 00:16:31

don't like to be uncomfortable.

305

: 00:16:32

And I think that's why, like, that's

one of the reasons I had blinders on.

306

: 00:16:36

And Some of these things just and

again, like, I have a very diverse

307

: 00:16:40

friend group of all, you know,

me, I'm friends with everybody.

308

: 00:16:45

Um, just having conversations with

people is really what opened my eyes.

309

: 00:16:52

To the fact that this is not fixed

and that this is still a problem.

310

: 00:16:55

And then when you delve further

into it, you read about the race

311

: 00:16:58

riots that we never learned about in

school, um, Tulsa, Houston, East St.

312

: 00:17:04

Louis, like all the stuff that happened

in the: 1910

313

: 00:17:09

in office fanning the flames of, um,

Racism by, you know, re segregating

314

: 00:17:15

things have been unsegregated.

315

: 00:17:16

He re segregated a lot of

things in the government.

316

: 00:17:19

And, um, you know, it's, you have

to pay attention to these things.

317

: 00:17:25

And that's, I think one of the cool things

about what you're doing is I think from

318

: 00:17:29

you, I learned that you really have to

like, and I'm, I'm a, I'm an, I'm an,

319

: 00:17:33

a very intellectually curious person.

320

: 00:17:35

I love to go down a rabbit hole.

321

: 00:17:36

So, you know, when stuff comes up, I

love to read about it and research it.

322

: 00:17:41

And, um, I think that's one of the

things that is really important to

323

: 00:17:46

getting more people to come around

to the fact that things are not fixed

324

: 00:17:49

and there are things that we can do.

325

: 00:17:52

To, to, you know, help, help.

326

: 00:17:55

Right.

327

: 00:17:56

Bring light to some of these issues.

328

: 00:17:57

Tony Tidbit: Right, right.

329

: 00:17:58

So, so number 1, thank you, Courteney.

330

: 00:18:00

And just, I want to let the audience

know, um, this is, this is Courteney.

331

: 00:18:04

She didn't have 8, uh,

cups of coffee today.

332

: 00:18:09

This is just who she is.

333

: 00:18:10

She's, she's very high energetic.

334

: 00:18:12

Individual, right?

335

: 00:18:13

And so number one, I love her

a lot and I'm so glad that

336

: 00:18:17

she's on and she's sharing.

337

: 00:18:18

I just want to back up because

you said a whole lot and I want

338

: 00:18:21

to back up a little bit, right?

339

: 00:18:23

But that's just who you are, Courteney.

340

: 00:18:24

So it's all

341

: 00:18:25

Courteney Mitchell: good.

342

: 00:18:25

No, no,

343

: 00:18:26

Tony Tidbit: it's just who you are.

344

: 00:18:27

So it's all good.

345

: 00:18:28

Right?

346

: 00:18:28

So let's back up because I want to, I want

to make sure we get back to the DAR thing.

347

: 00:18:33

And there's a couple other things, but I

want to go back just a little bit further.

348

: 00:18:36

Cause you said, your parents said, um, You

know, you're not supposed to see color.

349

: 00:18:41

Okay.

350

: 00:18:42

And again, going back to what Dr.

351

: 00:18:43

Williams and stuff said is that white

families teach their children not to

352

: 00:18:49

notice race, not to talk about race.

353

: 00:18:51

Right.

354

: 00:18:51

So when you say, you know, you're not

supposed to, even though, and here's the

355

: 00:18:56

thing, your parents, Um, sound awesome.

356

: 00:18:59

You said your mother talked about, um,

Emmett Till and she remembered that and

357

: 00:19:05

that, you know, struck a chord with her

and she, they brought you up to, to,

358

: 00:19:10

you know, uh, treat everybody the same.

359

: 00:19:12

So all those things are great.

360

: 00:19:14

There's that's awesome.

361

: 00:19:15

Right.

362

: 00:19:15

Cause there's a lot of families.

363

: 00:19:16

They don't even do that.

364

: 00:19:17

Okay.

365

: 00:19:18

But I just want to back up.

366

: 00:19:19

I want to just put a pin in here.

367

: 00:19:21

When, when your parents says.

368

: 00:19:24

don't see color.

369

: 00:19:26

And then going back to what Dr.

370

: 00:19:27

Williams and Dr.

371

: 00:19:29

Faber says is that white families are

taught not to talk about race, right?

372

: 00:19:35

And because they don't talk about it,

they don't see the racism in front of you.

373

: 00:19:40

So I want to, is there, do you think

that's a correlation in terms of your

374

: 00:19:45

mother saying, Don't, I mean, treat,

don't see color and then to your

375

: 00:19:51

point, you're not, you're, you're

not noticing a lot of stuff until

376

: 00:19:56

you went to college and stuff, even

though you are, you know, intellectual,

377

: 00:20:00

curious, you're a smart individual.

378

: 00:20:02

You love history.

379

: 00:20:03

Can you speak to that a little bit?

380

: 00:20:05

Courteney Mitchell: Yeah, I mean,

I think I don't necessarily know

381

: 00:20:08

if it was that or the fact that I

just grew up with no color like, um,

382

: 00:20:14

Belchertown and I think it's changed.

383

: 00:20:15

I don't go home very

I'm I have my parents.

384

: 00:20:18

So

385

: 00:20:18

Tony Tidbit: just to be clear, though,

so when you say when you say don't grow

386

: 00:20:21

up, you didn't grow up with any color.

387

: 00:20:23

You're basically saying you didn't grow

up with a lot of diversity around you.

388

: 00:20:27

Is that what you're saying?

389

: 00:20:28

Not

390

: 00:20:28

Courteney Mitchell: at all.

391

: 00:20:29

Tony Tidbit: Correct.

392

: 00:20:32

Courteney Mitchell: Um, and I think

it might have, it's probably changed.

393

: 00:20:35

I, I haven't, I don't, I don't not really

up on the demographics of the town now,

394

: 00:20:39

but in the nineties, it was very white.

395

: 00:20:42

Tony Tidbit: Right, right, right, right.

396

: 00:20:43

Well, tell me a little

bit about your friends.

397

: 00:20:45

Did race come up at all with your friends?

398

: 00:20:48

Or, you know, was there any,

you know, uh, derogatory terms

399

: 00:20:52

or phrases that were said?

400

: 00:20:53

Or was it just because there

was no people of color, they

401

: 00:20:56

didn't really even talk about it.

402

: 00:20:58

Tell us a little bit about that.

403

: 00:20:58

There

404

: 00:20:59

Courteney Mitchell: was no people of color

and we didn't really even talk about it.

405

: 00:21:01

Tony Tidbit: So you

didn't even talk about it.

406

: 00:21:03

Okay, okay, all right.

407

: 00:21:05

Yeah.

408

: 00:21:05

Go ahead.

409

: 00:21:06

Courteney Mitchell: And, and then you

contrast that, like when the George

410

: 00:21:08

Floyd thing happened, I remember we had a

call at Warner and I remember one of our

411

: 00:21:12

coworkers crying on the zoom and it made

me cry having to talk about how she talked

412

: 00:21:19

to her sons about dealing with police.

413

: 00:21:23

And that I never would have

even thought about that.

414

: 00:21:26

And I just remember being so floored

that this woman had to have this

415

: 00:21:29

conversation with, with her children.

416

: 00:21:32

White people would never have to have

that conversation with their kids.

417

: 00:21:34

How to, you know, That there could

be a possibility that I could go out

418

: 00:21:39

wearing a hoodie and a hat and and

get shot at like I would never even

419

: 00:21:43

thought that would never even cross

the minds of anybody in in my space,

420

: 00:21:47

Tony Tidbit: right?

421

: 00:21:47

And I

422

: 00:21:48

Courteney Mitchell: think that that's

the type of people had to have.

423

: 00:21:51

I was completely that

that really impacted me.

424

: 00:21:54

Tony Tidbit: So you were saying that, you

know, when you went to college, uh, it was

425

: 00:21:59

a rainbow coalition on paraphrase, right?

426

: 00:22:04

You were able to have friends from

different backgrounds, religions,

427

: 00:22:09

sexuality to hone nine yards and

it really broadened your horizons.

428

: 00:22:13

Yeah, and I think you told one story of

your friend, um, but what did you learn

429

: 00:22:17

out of that that you didn't learn when you

were growing up, um, in your town Belcher?

430

: 00:22:22

Courteney Mitchell: Well, I think

that, that I learned a lot about

431

: 00:22:26

different countries and backgrounds.

432

: 00:22:28

Like we had, I had friends that were in

the, um, The Indian Students Association

433

: 00:22:33

and friends in like the gay and lesbian

and a lot of the international students.

434

: 00:22:39

I was involved in the student government.

435

: 00:22:41

Um, I was involved in Greek life.

436

: 00:22:45

Greek life was pretty white,

although we did have the, um,

437

: 00:22:48

the NPC, we had the regular.

438

: 00:22:51

Panhellenic and Greek life.

439

: 00:22:53

And then we did have the, like, the alpha

cap alpha was on our, uh, sigma gamma row.

440

: 00:22:57

Um, and so I was, I mean, this

is, you know, me, I'm friendly

441

: 00:23:00

with everybody everywhere I go.

442

: 00:23:01

I'm like, I love to meet people.

443

: 00:23:03

I love to talk to people.

444

: 00:23:04

I love to learn about people.

445

: 00:23:05

Um, I just think I took it as a

learning experience to learn about

446

: 00:23:09

different people's backgrounds and

how they grew up, where they grew

447

: 00:23:12

up, what was different about where

they grew up versus where I grew up.

448

: 00:23:17

Um, and like just broadening my worldview.

449

: 00:23:20

I mean, at this point too,

and I didn't really travel.

450

: 00:23:23

I went out of the country once when I

was in high school, we went to school

451

: 00:23:26

trip to Costa Rica, and that was my

only time ever having been out of the U.

452

: 00:23:31

S.

453

: 00:23:32

And, um, so it was really cool to, like,

learn about all these different cultures

454

: 00:23:36

and read about all these different

cultures, places that I'd never been.

455

: 00:23:39

Right.

456

: 00:23:40

Um, I think for me, I just use it as

a learning experience and again, like

457

: 00:23:45

never not thinking, thinking about

like treating everybody equally.

458

: 00:23:48

Everybody, my mom always used to say like,

you know, you know, but by the grace of

459

: 00:23:52

God, you're lucky to grow up who you are.

460

: 00:23:55

You could have this, you know,

you could have grown up anyway.

461

: 00:23:58

And So I always just was, I

think my whole philosophy in life

462

: 00:24:02

is like, just treat, be kind.

463

: 00:24:04

Um, it's, it's takes the same amount of

effort to be nice as it does to be a jerk.

464

: 00:24:09

So why would you choose to be a jerk?

465

: 00:24:11

Um, I think that for me, like I

just used the, the learning about

466

: 00:24:17

different cultures to sort of,

again, just broaden my horizons.

467

: 00:24:22

I never thought anything like,

Oh, that person is from here.

468

: 00:24:25

Ew.

469

: 00:24:26

Like, yeah, I

470

: 00:24:27

Tony Tidbit: mean, you, you,

471

: 00:24:28

Courteney Mitchell: that was not in my,

472

: 00:24:29

Tony Tidbit: yeah, you, you've always

been a very open individual, right?

473

: 00:24:32

Let me, let me ask you this.

474

: 00:24:34

Um, yeah.

475

: 00:24:35

And I want to back up to the DAR thing.

476

: 00:24:37

Cause you said, and what, what,

and what does it stand for again?

477

: 00:24:41

Daughters.

478

: 00:24:42

Yeah.

479

: 00:24:42

Courteney Mitchell: Uh, the

Daughters of the American Revolution.

480

: 00:24:44

Okay,

481

: 00:24:44

Tony Tidbit: Daughters

of the American Legion.

482

: 00:24:44

And you said you, you joined,

um, you know, your history buff.

483

: 00:24:48

You said that, um, somebody said, Why

does race have anything to do with it?

484

: 00:24:52

Talk, tell us what happened there.

485

: 00:24:54

Courteney Mitchell: So, I was talking, I

can't remember what I was talking about.

486

: 00:24:57

It might have been my race

in the military thing.

487

: 00:24:59

Oh, or we were, we were having some sort

of conversation and I said, well, The

488

: 00:25:05

context of it, I don't remember, but

I just remember her being like, well,

489

: 00:25:08

why would you feel guilty about that?

490

: 00:25:10

It happened a hundred years ago.

491

: 00:25:12

And I'm like, I don't feel,

I don't feel guilty about it.

492

: 00:25:14

I feel badly that this happened

to this group of people.

493

: 00:25:17

And now they've been basically

disenfranchised for 150 years.

494

: 00:25:22

Um, and I think that a

lot of people think about.

495

: 00:25:26

You know,

496

: 00:25:30

I think a lot of white people

don't think about race and I

497

: 00:25:32

think that's a real problem.

498

: 00:25:33

And I think that until you're

willing to get, it's like fitness,

499

: 00:25:38

like, not to bring it back.

500

: 00:25:39

Because, you know, we all know

I love to work out, but like, if

501

: 00:25:42

you don't, if you're working out

and you're not uncomfortable,

502

: 00:25:44

you're not getting stronger.

503

: 00:25:45

And I think the same holds true for like.

504

: 00:25:47

life you have to sometimes put yourself

into uncomfortable spaces in order

505

: 00:25:52

to get stronger, to grow, to learn.

506

: 00:25:55

And I think that a lot of people don't,

people don't like to be uncomfortable.

507

: 00:25:59

People want to become,

people want to be happy.

508

: 00:26:01

I mean, who doesn't love, everybody

loves to be comfortable, but sometimes

509

: 00:26:04

you have to just get uncomfortable.

510

: 00:26:06

And I think that especially older people

of certain, you know, not to like.

511

: 00:26:12

Smirch, the, the boomers

or the silent generation.

512

: 00:26:15

But I think that a lot of those

people, the way that they were

513

: 00:26:18

raised was to like not talk about it.

514

: 00:26:21

And I think that's, that's

how my generation, I'm Gen X.

515

: 00:26:23

mm-Hmm.

516

: 00:26:24

. I think that's how we were raised.

517

: 00:26:25

We were, we didn't talk about it.

518

: 00:26:27

And then in my, I mean.

519

: 00:26:29

Our lifetime, you know, I was too

young for Vietnam, so I don't, I

520

: 00:26:33

don't have any recollection of that.

521

: 00:26:36

Um, we had like, you know, the,

the Berlin Wall came down, we had

522

: 00:26:41

Operation Desert Storm and Iraqi, you

know, Iraqi freedom in the early 90s.

523

: 00:26:46

And then we had 9 11.

524

: 00:26:48

We've, our generation, like, we

have had a very peaceful life.

525

: 00:26:53

If you think about it in context to

like other generations in history,

526

: 00:26:57

we've not been sent to, you know, go

die in a trench or, you know, to land

527

: 00:27:03

on a beach and, and face the gun nests.

528

: 00:27:06

Um, and I think that people

just don't like to think about

529

: 00:27:12

things that are unpleasant.

530

: 00:27:14

And I think that racism is one of those

things that people like to not think about

531

: 00:27:17

because it's not pleasant to think about.

532

: 00:27:19

And if you have, you actually think

about it, you're going to have like a

533

: 00:27:22

reckoning as to like how messed up it is

and how, like, like, I remember reading

534

: 00:27:28

about red line, red lining and, and the

ways that, um, black people have not

535

: 00:27:34

been able to build generational wealth

that puts them at a severe disadvantage

536

: 00:27:37

compared to, you know, white people.

537

: 00:27:41

Um, and it, like, how do we,

like, this has to be fixed.

538

: 00:27:46

Tony Tidbit: So Courteney, let me ask

you this, you know, when I started

539

: 00:27:49

the Open Conversation, um, on race

session at work, you know, one of

540

: 00:27:55

the things I wanted to do, I wanted

to get everybody to come together.

541

: 00:27:58

I wanted people to finally be in a

safe space where they can hear other

542

: 00:28:02

people's perspectives without, uh,

having to be, without being judged

543

: 00:28:06

or attacked or if the case may be.

544

: 00:28:09

And so, you know, we came

up with ground rules.

545

: 00:28:13

But the main thing I needed to do was

for me to be authentic and be vulnerable.

546

: 00:28:19

I needed to share my biases,

things that I deal with, right?

547

: 00:28:24

And you know, and I, and I, and I, every

human being has biases and I had my own.

548

: 00:28:29

And that was, you know, I

had to be vulnerable there.

549

: 00:28:32

If I'm looking for other

people to be vulnerable.

550

: 00:28:34

Okay.

551

: 00:28:34

For other people to say, aha, I got it.

552

: 00:28:37

For other people to say, you know what?

553

: 00:28:38

Okay.

554

: 00:28:38

I was brought up this way or I believe

this and you know what, I, I, I, I,

555

: 00:28:43

I'm open to learning more, right?

556

: 00:28:45

So I shared those things and one was

about the gay community growing up.

557

: 00:28:49

You know, hearing, being preached

about this is wrong, this is this,

558

: 00:28:53

this is that you're a young kid, you

grow up and you believe that and that's

559

: 00:28:56

what you run out to the world with.

560

: 00:28:58

Right.

561

: 00:28:59

So let me ask you this.

562

: 00:29:00

You grow up, you got a great, um,

family, you know, you are willing

563

: 00:29:06

to, you're open to, to all different

type of people, but you know, going

564

: 00:29:11

through your awakening, you know, Did

you recognize any biases that you had?

565

: 00:29:15

Courteney Mitchell: Well, I mean, I

grew up in the eighties and nineties.

566

: 00:29:17

And again, I think I said this

earlier, like in that time you

567

: 00:29:20

were either straight or closeted.

568

: 00:29:21

And I remember also having a little

bit of bias towards the gay community.

569

: 00:29:25

My mother shut that down right away.

570

: 00:29:27

My mom had gay friends, my

mom, it works in psychology.

571

: 00:29:31

And, um, she shut that down, but it wasn't

until I actually Met gay people and became

572

: 00:29:37

friends with them that I sort of and

that's the I think the common theme when

573

: 00:29:40

I've like looked at things When I meet

people and spend time with them and learn

574

: 00:29:44

about them The biases go away because i'm

like, oh, I like that person as a human

575

: 00:29:48

Uh, abraham lincoln had a great quote.

576

: 00:29:50

I don't like that man I must get to know

him better and I think that for me anytime

577

: 00:29:55

I trend towards being like, oh I I try

to think I try to see the good in people.

578

: 00:30:01

Um for me, I think as a You I, I

call myself a lifelong Masshole.

579

: 00:30:06

Um, I think that I do have a bias

and I, I, this is something I've

580

: 00:30:11

had to work on against people from

like rural Southern America, um,

581

: 00:30:16

particularly as the political divide

in this country has, uh, gotten wider.

582

: 00:30:22

Um, and when I, when I think about like

my first inclination, when I react to

583

: 00:30:27

something, Sometimes I feel that and

then I have to like take a step back

584

: 00:30:32

and sort of reframe my perception and

be like, okay, we're all Americans.

585

: 00:30:36

Everybody here had, this is the best

part about America is that we all

586

: 00:30:39

have the right to our own opinion.

587

: 00:30:40

I don't tell you what to think.

588

: 00:30:42

I don't want you to tell me what to think.

589

: 00:30:43

And I certainly don't want the

government to tell me what to think.

590

: 00:30:46

And I think that for me, like that taking

a step back or like, okay, um, similar

591

: 00:30:52

to you, like when you don't know about

something, there's like that fear there.

592

: 00:30:55

Right.

593

: 00:30:56

And you and I, we've talked about

that in the conversations on race.

594

: 00:30:59

False.

595

: 00:31:00

Um, what is it?

596

: 00:31:03

Tony Tidbit: False evidence appearing real

597

: 00:31:05

Courteney Mitchell:

evidence appearing real.

598

: 00:31:06

And, um, I think that a lot of

times, like, I'll like having that,

599

: 00:31:11

like, that was such an eye opener

when you did that session on fear.

600

: 00:31:14

And I'll think, okay,

is what is driving this?

601

: 00:31:17

And, um, I think that for a while

I had the same bias thinking

602

: 00:31:23

about the transgender community.

603

: 00:31:25

And I remember the conversation on

race we had, where we talked about

604

: 00:31:29

trans women in women's sports.

605

: 00:31:32

And that completely changed my

perspective, because again, like when

606

: 00:31:35

you actually delve into it and look

at the facts and talk to people, it's

607

: 00:31:40

not really that much of a problem, but

people like to, you know, Use fear to,

608

: 00:31:44

to make it a problem where there's none

to drive whatever agenda they're pushing.

609

: 00:31:49

And I think that for me with biases,

it's like trying to find a human

610

: 00:31:53

connection with somebody in that group

to make, it helps me understand that

611

: 00:31:57

group better and helps me again, shift

that perception to be coming, not coming

612

: 00:32:03

from a place of fear, but coming from a

place of like empathy and understanding.

613

: 00:32:07

Tony Tidbit: No, that, that is great.

614

: 00:32:08

And you know, that's,

that's the thing, right?

615

: 00:32:10

Is that You know, we have a bias

nine times out of 10 on something

616

: 00:32:17

that we've never experienced.

617

: 00:32:19

All right.

618

: 00:32:20

And then to your point, once you

experience, and that's the greatest

619

: 00:32:24

teacher is, is meeting new people,

meeting all different type of people

620

: 00:32:30

and learning from all of them.

621

: 00:32:31

Right.

622

: 00:32:32

And, you know, from that

standpoint, now you may not.

623

: 00:32:35

I may not like somebody because

I don't like their personality.

624

: 00:32:38

Okay.

625

: 00:32:39

They can be arrogant or

they can be this and that.

626

: 00:32:41

That's something totally different

versus I don't like this group of people.

627

: 00:32:45

Okay.

628

: 00:32:45

Just because somebody told me

something or because one person in

629

: 00:32:51

that group did something wrong to me.

630

: 00:32:55

Now I'm pretty much going to

label the whole group, right?

631

: 00:32:58

So, so I appreciate you

sharing that right now.

632

: 00:33:02

How do you continue to

keep yourself educated?

633

: 00:33:06

In terms of, because

it's a big world, right?

634

: 00:33:08

And nobody knows everything.

635

: 00:33:10

So how do you continue to stay

educated when it comes to diversity?

636

: 00:33:14

Courteney Mitchell: Well,

you know me, I am a voracious

637

: 00:33:16

reader and consumer of media.

638

: 00:33:19

I love the news.

639

: 00:33:20

I, I know that a lot of people in

America have news fatigue right now

640

: 00:33:24

because of the last, we'll say 10 years.

641

: 00:33:29

Um, it's, it can be exhausting

to, you know, it's not good news.

642

: 00:33:33

It doesn't make you feel good.

643

: 00:33:35

Um, sometimes all I want to do is

look at, like, Reels of people's pets.

644

: 00:33:39

Um, but you have, like,

we have to stay informed.

645

: 00:33:42

It's our job to, to stay informed.

646

: 00:33:45

So I love to go down the rabbit hole.

647

: 00:33:47

As I said, um, documentaries, uh,

books, uh, TV shows, movies, um, you

648

: 00:33:55

know, I, that is how I stay educated.

649

: 00:33:57

And I also, you know, again,

try to foster human connection.

650

: 00:34:01

If I don't understand

something, I ask about it.

651

: 00:34:03

Um, like when all that stuff was

happening in the mid tens with, you

652

: 00:34:08

know, Michael Brown, Eric Garner,

Sandra Bland, I had conversations with

653

: 00:34:12

my black friends, um, when the, the

situation in, you know, in the Middle

654

: 00:34:17

East right now with Israel and Hamas.

655

: 00:34:21

I have conversations.

656

: 00:34:22

I have come, I've met a random person

in a, um, a LinkedIn group who used to

657

: 00:34:27

be a member of the IDF and has since

like defected to the United States.

658

: 00:34:31

And I got on the phone with this

person and had a wonderful conversation

659

: 00:34:34

about what it was like and what their

feelings were on the whole crisis.

660

: 00:34:38

I, you know, have conversations with

my Jewish friends about how one of

661

: 00:34:42

my friends was with her daughter

in their small town in New York.

662

: 00:34:46

And there was an anti Jewish

rally, like what year are we in?

663

: 00:34:50

And like, just trying to have these

conversations, ask people questions.

664

: 00:34:54

And so that I can get a better

understanding of how people who may

665

: 00:34:57

be feeling marginalized are feeling.

666

: 00:34:59

And then, you know, one of the

things with all the situation in the

667

: 00:35:05

Middle East is, you know, a lot of my

Jewish friends don't feel supported.

668

: 00:35:10

And I think we, on one of our

last conversations on race, we

669

: 00:35:12

like our friend, Gab talked about.

670

: 00:35:16

And I like was crying like it when you

have these conversations and you can you

671

: 00:35:21

can come at it from the perspective like

put yourself in someone else's shoes.

672

: 00:35:25

I think that helps me now before

that conversation with gab.

673

: 00:35:29

I might have told you that.

674

: 00:35:31

I don't think that.

675

: 00:35:33

You know, the government after World

War One had a right to or after World

676

: 00:35:38

War Two had a right to give that land

away with her perspective sharing.

677

: 00:35:43

Like, I do believe now that the Jewish

people deserve to have a homeland

678

: 00:35:46

and these people have to get along.

679

: 00:35:49

And I think that little efforts,

you know, trying to just show

680

: 00:35:53

your support and and be an ally.

681

: 00:35:57

I think that was the other

thing after the George Floyd.

682

: 00:35:59

Uh murder like you can't be silent about

this stuff and just think that Silence can

683

: 00:36:05

be complicitness in in some of this this

stuff And if I don't come out after george

684

: 00:36:10

floyd, I felt compelled, you know me.

685

: 00:36:12

I don't post a lot on social media I

felt compelled to write a huge facebook

686

: 00:36:15

post about being an anti racist and

all the things that have impacted me

687

: 00:36:19

to make me Have that point of view and

I think that that's it's it's similar

688

: 00:36:23

Like you have to take a stand you have

to say something you have to you know,

689

: 00:36:27

have those conversations Transcribed

And, and make your friends, you know,

690

: 00:36:31

show your friends that you support them.

691

: 00:36:33

Tony Tidbit: That's awesome.

692

: 00:36:34

That is really awesome.

693

: 00:36:35

So thanks for sharing that.

694

: 00:36:36

So final thoughts, what, some of the

things, um, you know, give us some

695

: 00:36:42

final thoughts and what advice would you

give listeners who's listening to this?

696

: 00:36:46

All right.

697

: 00:36:48

Um, who may not be as enlightened

as you, who may still live in that

698

: 00:36:55

small town where there's not a lot of

diversity, who may still, may be afraid.

699

: 00:37:02

Um, because of all the things

that's pushed from a media

700

: 00:37:05

standpoint about different groups

and stuff to that nature, right?

701

: 00:37:09

So, and let's be fair.

702

: 00:37:11

There are people that's that, that way.

703

: 00:37:14

That doesn't make them evil or bad.

704

: 00:37:17

It's just, you know, they're not informed.

705

: 00:37:20

So what recommendations

would you give them?

706

: 00:37:22

Courteney Mitchell: I would say, listen,

have conversations with people, find

707

: 00:37:26

people to have conversations with.

708

: 00:37:28

We have the internet, like you can go

find anybody to have a conversation with.

709

: 00:37:32

Um, if you want to do it

anonymously, go on Reddit.

710

: 00:37:35

Reddit has forums for everything.

711

: 00:37:38

Um, yes, some of the people are trolls

and you got to weed out, weed out that.

712

: 00:37:41

I would say base yourself in fact,

always check the sources on things.

713

: 00:37:45

Don't just read something

and be like, well, that's.

714

: 00:37:47

That's fact, like make sure you're

getting it from credible news sources.

715

: 00:37:51

Make sure you're having conversations

with real people and be willing

716

: 00:37:55

to just listen without judgment.

717

: 00:37:57

So I know like we're human, right?

718

: 00:37:59

You can, someone can tell, like, I

remember being someone, a friend of mine.

719

: 00:38:03

In New York was telling me that

she had as a black woman had a hard

720

: 00:38:07

time finding a cab to stop for her.

721

: 00:38:09

And now Courteney, the fixer

is like, well, did you do this?

722

: 00:38:12

Did you?

723

: 00:38:12

And you can't ask those questions.

724

: 00:38:14

You just listen and you empathize

and you remember that your

725

: 00:38:18

friend how it feels this way.

726

: 00:38:20

It's how they feel.

727

: 00:38:23

You take that and, you know, I, I have

gone to New York with this particular

728

: 00:38:27

friend and gone out and gotten us

a cab because I, I know that she

729

: 00:38:30

doesn't feel comfortable with that.

730

: 00:38:31

And I think that, again, just

learning and, and being able to be

731

: 00:38:37

a good listener and being able to

approach situations with empathy.

732

: 00:38:43

Um, and then again, if you feel

like you don't like someone, try

733

: 00:38:46

to get to know it a little bit

better before you write it off.

734

: 00:38:49

There's always ways to find the

good in people and, or things.

735

: 00:38:53

Um, and remember that, especially

if you're here in the U.

736

: 00:38:56

S., like, that's the beautiful thing

about America, is we all have the

737

: 00:39:00

right to have Our own feelings and and

opinions and don't don't be judgmental.

738

: 00:39:07

I think judge don't judge like

lose the judgment that I think

739

: 00:39:11

would be if we could do that.

740

: 00:39:14

Um, but, yeah, I mean, learn, I go

down the rabbit hole visit museums.

741

: 00:39:20

I will say, um, if

you're in Washington, D.

742

: 00:39:23

C, the National Museum of African American

history and culture is probably 1 of

743

: 00:39:28

my favorite places that I've ever been.

744

: 00:39:30

And I have, I have.

745

: 00:39:32

Then twice for, like, 3 hours each

time, and I still have, like, half the

746

: 00:39:36

place to see, um, you the 5th floor

and you and I've talked about this.

747

: 00:39:40

There's an exhibit on black

people in the military.

748

: 00:39:43

And I went down a real rabbit hole

there and culminating in me, like,

749

: 00:39:47

visiting all these battlefields

and historical sites in Europe.

750

: 00:39:51

So I just like, be open to learning

and be curious and be kind, like

751

: 00:39:56

our old, our old boss, Tony used

to say, stay curious and be kind.

752

: 00:40:01

Tony Tidbit: Uh, well,

thank you, my friend.

753

: 00:40:02

And look, I really appreciate you coming

on and sharing, you know, not just in

754

: 00:40:08

terms of, um, the words, but how you

share with your passion, your energy.

755

: 00:40:15

Um, you know, I think this is something

that a lot of people can learn from,

756

: 00:40:18

and I really appreciate you as a person.

757

: 00:40:22

Um, and I know you go out and all

the people that you touch, they

758

: 00:40:27

feel the same about you, right?

759

: 00:40:29

Is that the energy that you bring,

the love that you push out there.

760

: 00:40:33

And, you know, I said this a long time

ago, um, life is like a boomerang.

761

: 00:40:37

Whatever you throw out comes back.

762

: 00:40:40

So Courteney Mitchell.

763

: 00:40:41

Thanks for appearing on a Black

Executive Perspective podcast

764

: 00:40:45

and sharing your perspective.

765

: 00:40:47

Courteney Mitchell: Tony, thank

you so much for having me.

766

: 00:40:49

You have, uh, you have changed my life

and my, my, uh, given me the ability

767

: 00:40:53

to have these difficult conversations

with people in a respectful way.

768

: 00:40:56

And I will forever be

appreciative of that.

769

: 00:40:58

Tony Tidbit: So I think it's

now time for Tony's Tidbit.

770

: 00:41:02

And the tidbit today is

771

: 00:41:06

Conversations on race can be

uncomfortable, but the only way to

772

: 00:41:11

improve our understanding and reduce

bias is through open dialogue.

773

: 00:41:16

honest and respectful dialogue.

774

: 00:41:19

And you heard that today,

Courteney Mitchell.

775

: 00:41:23

So really appreciate that.

776

: 00:41:24

So I want to remind everybody about our

new BEP segment, Need to Know with Nsenga.

777

: 00:41:31

You don't want to miss it.

778

: 00:41:33

It comes out each Thursday.

779

: 00:41:35

Need to Know segment by Dr.

780

: 00:41:36

Nsenga Burton.

781

: 00:41:38

Where Dr.

782

: 00:41:39

Burton is going to dive into

the timely, crucial topics that

783

: 00:41:42

shape our community and world.

784

: 00:41:45

You want to definitely tune

in to gain a unique insights

785

: 00:41:47

and deepen your understanding.

786

: 00:41:49

Of the issues that matter.

787

: 00:41:51

Don't want to miss this

every Thursday on BEP.

788

: 00:41:55

Don't miss this week's

Need to Know with Dr.

789

: 00:41:58

Nsenga Burton.

790

: 00:42:00

So I think it's now time

for our call to action.

791

: 00:42:03

Again, this is something that's

very important to a Black

792

: 00:42:05

Executive Perspective podcast.

793

: 00:42:07

We exist because we have this platform

where we can We want to have open

794

: 00:42:12

and honest discussion to bring people

together to heighten their awareness.

795

: 00:42:16

Our goal is to decrease

racism and all the isms.

796

: 00:42:21

So we're asking everyone, and this

is something that everyone can do.

797

: 00:42:25

It's something that you can control.

798

: 00:42:27

Incorporate our call to

action, which stands for less.

799

: 00:42:31

L.

800

: 00:42:32

E.

801

: 00:42:32

S.

802

: 00:42:32

S.

803

: 00:42:33

L.

804

: 00:42:34

stands for learn.

805

: 00:42:35

As Courteney said earlier, you want to

learn about new people, new perspectives,

806

: 00:42:40

history, things that you're not privy

to, to make you more enlightened.

807

: 00:42:45

E stands for empathy.

808

: 00:42:46

Once you've learned, you should

become more empathetic to other

809

: 00:42:50

groups and other individuals.

810

: 00:42:52

S stands for share.

811

: 00:42:54

We want everyone to

learn and be enlightened.

812

: 00:42:57

So you want to share what you

learned to your friends and family.

813

: 00:43:01

And the other S stands for stop.

814

: 00:43:03

Our goal, your goal is to

stop discrimination as it

815

: 00:43:07

comes in your path, right?

816

: 00:43:09

So if you hear grandma

or grandpa or uncle Joe.

817

: 00:43:13

Auntie Carol say in your path at the

dinner table about a certain group,

818

: 00:43:19

you say, Grandma, Grandpa, Uncle, Aunt.

819

: 00:43:23

We don't believe in that.

820

: 00:43:25

We don't say that.

821

: 00:43:26

And so you stop that

discrimination right then.

822

: 00:43:29

And by everyone doing this,

we're going to create a more

823

: 00:43:33

deeper and understanding world.

824

: 00:43:35

And more importantly, we'll all be able

to see the change that we want to see.

825

: 00:43:41

This is something that

we all can do one by one.

826

: 00:43:45

You start in your own

family and guess what?

827

: 00:43:48

We'll see that change.

828

: 00:43:50

So I really appreciate you spending

the time, investing the time to

829

: 00:43:54

listen to another episode of a

black executive perspective podcast.

830

: 00:43:58

You can continue to follow us

wherever you get your podcast.

831

: 00:44:01

You can follow us on our social

channels of LinkedIn X, YouTube.

832

: 00:44:06

Instagram and TikTok at ablackexec

for our fabulous, energetic, loving

833

: 00:44:14

guests, Courteney Mitchell for Noel

Miller, the producer behind the

834

: 00:44:19

scenes, that's making all this happen

at the university of New Haven.

835

: 00:44:23

I'm Tony tidbit.

836

: 00:44:24

We talked about it.

837

: 00:44:26

We love you.

838

: 00:44:27

And we're out

839

: 00:44:32

BEP Narrator: a black

executive perspective.