Breaking the Silence- Addressing Mental Health at Work

Speaker: 00:00:00

Dr. Patrice LeGoy: You want to be

in a position where you can be open

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and creative and honest, right?

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That's how employers get

the best work out of people.

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That's how you feel that you are

part of a team that you want to work

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really hard with and really hard for,

you know, your, your supervisor, if

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you're all kind of in agreement that

you can bring your full self to work.

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Um, I think that employers are starting

to recognize that, but I also think

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that they are hesitant to, to talk

about mental health in the workplace

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because I think If they're concerned,

they may open up a can of worms that

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they don't know how to deal with.

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Tony Tidbit: We'll discuss race and how it

plays a factor in how we didn't even talk

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about this topic because we were afraid.

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BEP Narrator: A Black

Executive Perspective.

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Tony Tidbit: Welcome to a Black

Executive Perspective podcast.

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A safe space where we discuss all

matters related to race, especially

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race in corporate America.

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I'm your host, Tony Tidbit.

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So before we get started for a very

impactful episode, I want to remind

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everyone that please don't forget to

check out our partners at CodeM Magazine,

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: 00:01:01

whose mission is saving the Black family

by first, uh, Saving the black man.

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: 00:01:06

So go and check out their content at code.

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: 00:01:09

M magazine.

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com.

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That is code M magazine.

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com.

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So today we're going to

explore mental health in the

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workplace with our guests, Dr.

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Patrice LeGoy and Matt Schuster.

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Matt is going to be kindly enough to

share his personal experiences with

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mental health challenges at the workplace.

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In addition, we'll discuss internal

and external triggers that affect

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mental well being and how they

play out in professional settings.

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Dr.

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Legoy will analyze these experiences

and offer practical strategies

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for individuals and organizations

to support mental health.

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Our goal here today, everyone,

is to enlighten people at work,

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supervisors and peers on managing

these issues, effectively promoting

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a healthier workplace for all.

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So Dr.

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Patrice LeGoy, Matt Schuster, welcome

to a Black Executive Perspective

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Podcast, my brother and my sister.

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Dr. Patrice LeGoy:

Thank you for having us.

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Matt Schuster: Thanks, Tony.

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Tony Tidbit: Well, look, I'm

excited to dive into this.

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You know, we, Matt, you and I

got to give you a lot of credit.

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My brother, you came on BEP and you

talked openly about some of the challenges

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that you went through, which showed

a lot of courage for you to do that.

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And so having Dr.

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Legoy on here, who, was also a

former guest, at least a couple of

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times on BET and she talked about

being mindful of your mental health.

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So this will be great to be able

to have both of you talk about this

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issue to educate others in something

that has been more taboo, but we

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got to get out of the taboo ness and

really be able to put it on the table

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because this is something in that.

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All people deal with at some point,

and that includes your host here.

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But before we dive into it and get

into the deep, heavy stuff, Dr.

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Legoy, Matt Schuster, why don't you tell

us, give the audience a little bit about

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your background, where are you currently

residing and tell us about your family.

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Dr. Patrice LeGoy: Uh, I'll get started.

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Um, so I am an international

psychologist and licensed

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marriage and family therapist.

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I live in Los Angeles.

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with my son who's eight and my

husband and we have a big shepherd

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mix, a hundred pound dog named Cosmo.

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Um, so our house is never quiet, but

I, uh, before becoming a psychologist

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and a therapist, I worked in

entertainment for about 15 years.

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Um, so complete pivot and, uh,

you know, I love talking to

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you, Tony, because I get to.

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Remember the corporate side of everything.

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And then also talk about it from

a psychological point of view

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and, um, and just in a quest for

mental wellness, like in all facets

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of our life, including at work.

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Tony Tidbit: Well, that is awesome.

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And I love the pivot, right?

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Um, that is great.

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Matt did that as well, the pivot.

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So we are talking about it, right?

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Um, so thank you.

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Welcome to the show.

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Matt Schuster, tell us

a little bit, buddy.

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What's your background?

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Tell us where you reside in, and

a little bit about your family.

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Matt Schuster: Yeah, thanks Tony.

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And, uh, I was gonna say, uh, Dr.

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LeGoy, that's a, it's, it's eerily

similar to, uh, the trajectory I took.

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So, um, so I'm currently living

in, uh, northern New Jersey

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in a town called Glenrock.

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Um, I am, uh, presently the co-founder

of a new sports nutrition company called

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Addra Labs, uh, where we make, uh, sports

nutrition products for endurance athletes.

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We just actually launched the

company about a month and a half

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ago with, uh, the first protein bar

designed for endurance athletes.

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Um, prior to that, I was, uh,

also in the corporate world.

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So I worked in advertising, uh,

advertising sales and technology

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and, um, around 2020 went into

a pretty strong pivot as well.

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From a world of community, the city,

uh, and corporate life into becoming,

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you know, an aspiring athlete and

into the world of endurance sport.

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And that kind of led to some

of the things that we're going

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to be talking about today.

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Um, but none of this could be

possible without my partner in crime.

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Uh, my wife, Rachel, uh, who is the CEO

of the house and puts up with a lot of my.

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A lot of my, uh, shenanigans and nonsense,

um, and then we have, uh, two little

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ones, Jack and Max, uh, nine and five,

uh, and then our, our oldest son is our

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dog Howie, who is not quite the same size.

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Um, as yours, Dr.

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LeGoy, but, uh, he's 11 going on

five and you know, we love him.

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Tony Tidbit: That was awesome, buddy.

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I love it.

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And I'm hearing a theme here, you

know, not just in terms of, well,

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east Coast, west Coast, okay.

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Uh, pivoting in terms of one

industry moving to another right.

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Family, and then you got the biggest

kid in the family is the dogs.

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Okay.

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So, so, I mean, we got so many

similarities here and I got to say this

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about Matt's, um, new company, uh, Addra

Labs all right, the protein bars are.

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Fabulous.

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Uh, you know, I'm addicted to

the apple pie one to be honest.

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Okay.

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So, you know, uh, BP is

a sponsor of Addra Labs.

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Um, so it's definitely something

that you want to check out regardless

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if you are high endurance athlete

or you just work out a couple of

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days a week to stay in shape and

you want to eat something healthy.

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You definitely want to check out his

product and we'll have more information

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on that at the end of the show.

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So more importantly, thank you guys

for giving us a little bit about you.

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Now, the question I ask, and

I'll kick this off with Dr.

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Legoy, look, you've been

on here a couple of times.

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You are well renowned.

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You've been on a bunch of shows.

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I've seen you with little Wayne.

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I've seen you all over the place, right?

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You're in high demand.

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We're Why did you want to come on a

black executive perspective podcast?

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Talk about this topic.

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Dr. Patrice LeGoy: Well, you

know, Tony, I'd jump at any

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opportunity to speak with you.

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I just think you bring, uh, such

insightful comments and, um, Really

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mindful about everyone that you encounter.

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And I just really appreciate that.

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And I think for this particular topic, you

know, hearing that story, it just reminded

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me, like, there is no way to exclude

whatever has happened with you internally.

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From how you present in the

rest of the world, and we're at

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work many hours out of the days.

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Often spend more time with people at work

than you do with your own family, right?

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And so I think it's, uh, it's really

impossible to ignore that you are going

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to bring, you know, whatever challenges

that you are dealing with into work.

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Sometimes your challenges are exacerbated

by work, um, depending on, you know,

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your situation and your coworkers.

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And I think that we have yet

to figure out a lot of good

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ways to talk about it at work.

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Right.

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And so, um, I, I just thought this was

such a relevant topic and to be able to

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do that with the two of you, you know,

I think it's just, it's such a pleasure.

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Tony Tidbit: That is awesome.

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Mr.

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Schuster, you were on here before.

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I mean, listen, like I said, I

give you a lot of buddy that was,

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and you blew me away and we've

been friends for almost 20 years.

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So why'd you want to come back

and talk about this topic?

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Matt Schuster: Uh, two reasons actually.

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So one is, um, you know, some of the,

some of the experiences I had, I haven't

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With anyone really outside of my

immediate family and, uh, only in

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the last couple of months have I

actually started opening up about it.

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And the biggest thing I learned

was the more I shared, the more

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other people felt or experienced or

encountered many of the same things.

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And what, what really came to

light was the more you can share,

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the more you can talk about it,

the more you can normalize it.

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Um, the more people feel more

comfortable talking about it.

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So if y'all.

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This was an awesome opportunity to use

the platform that you built and really

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Normalize talking about something

that's got that stigma and then the

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second reason was Um, you know, almost

a little over a year ago today, I

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listened to your first episode with Dr.

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Legoy and I remember

saying, wow, she's awesome.

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And when I heard it was the

opportunity to do a show together, I

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was like, yeah, I want it selfishly

because I want to pick her brain.

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Um, so, uh, and I don't claim to have

all the answers and, you know, my

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experience is, you know, an end of

one, but you know, if, if hearing the

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story and hearing the things that I.

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Did and went through and the tools I

used is helpful for others then So be it.

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Um, but having Dr.

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LeGoy to have a level of expertise

along with it is, is even better.

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Tony Tidbit: Wow.

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Wow.

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Well, thank you, buddy.

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You guys are both givers and

we're so excited that you're here

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to talk about something that's

going to help a lot of people.

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So you guys ready to talk about it?

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Matt Schuster: Yes.

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Ready?

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Tony Tidbit: All right.

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So let's talk about it.

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So, Dr.

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LeGoy, I'm going to come

to you first, right?

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Let's set the stage, right?

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When we talk about mental health and we

talk about mental health in the workplace,

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what are some of the common issues about

mental health in the workplace that people

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typically deal with, but don't share?

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Dr. Patrice LeGoy: Yes, I think

in a lot of workplaces, there is a

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natural hierarchy that exists, right?

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And there is a pressure that

comes with, Trying to advance.

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So you are constantly in this kind of rat

race of like, okay, I have this job now.

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This is my salary.

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What's the next step?

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What's the next step?

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And I think it's difficult when we're in

that place to find ourselves ever really

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satisfied with where we are in the moment.

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Um, I think that's one of the

things just constantly trying to

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achieve, which is not a negative.

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In and of itself, but it doesn't

really give much space for us to be

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in the present, to be enjoying the

things that we're doing right now.

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Um, you know, there's also

whatever's happening in the world

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is happening at work, right?

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So, like, for instance, right now, a lot

of people are thinking about the election.

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So if you, however, you feel you are

taking that with you to work, maybe

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you're avoiding certain conversations.

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Maybe you're talking more to people

who, you know, you agree with,

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um, but it still is, you know, Is

bringing outside factors into work

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that can be very stressful, right?

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Um, for people.

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And, you know, I think just that

the pressure to act like everything

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is great that there's nothing

can touch you is is very real.

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When you're at work, whether in a

position of leadership or you're trying

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to be in a position of leadership,

you don't really want to show how

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vulnerable you are in situations.

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It's just it's not really modeled for us.

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And most of the time.

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And so if you don't see that,

See anyone showing vulnerability.

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You don't see anyone acknowledging

that they're having a tough time.

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You don't feel that there's

space for you to do that either.

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Right.

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And so we hold things in, we repress

the feelings that we're having and they

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build and they build and they build.

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And so I think that.

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You know, those are some

of the main pressures.

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It's just a product of being in that

workplace and being in society, right?

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Those that those issues.

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And on top of that, we might have

other things going on that are

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also aggravated by trying to put

on, um, this mask at work, right?

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And trying to keep up that image that

we have created with our coworkers.

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Tony Tidbit: So, and look.

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You're 100 percent right.

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I saw Matt nodding his head.

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And obviously, there's probably another

arm length of issues that go in that from

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family issues to, you know, there's a

societal you talked a little bit about,

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but there's a million things that people

carry baggage that they come in with.

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Right.

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And that can, you know, they may even

start a job with mental health issues.

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Okay.

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So now, yeah.

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You know, we're talking about work.

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We talk about corporate America, you

know, businesses are like, we have a

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business here and, you know, at the end

of the day, we're hiring you to do a job.

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And at the end of the day, we want you to

do this job at the best of your ability.

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That's going to allow us to sell

more widgets or make more revenue

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or whatever the case may be.

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So, why is it crucial for companies

to address these issues proactively

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when, like you said, And we all grew

up before they, this was a taboo.

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You didn't even do, you just

got finished saying it, right?

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If you bring it up and man to

talk about his story, it's, it

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could be perceived as a weakness.

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It goes against you moving forward.

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It doesn't, now people looking at

you sideways, you know, so all the

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things, the fear that we have in

terms of talking about it, right.

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Why is it important that

the companies now really.

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Focus on this and make this an important

thing to deal with in the workplace.

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Dr. Patrice LeGoy: I'd be really

interested to hear what Matt has to say.

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I think from my point of view, I

recognize that you don't get the

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entire ability of an employee who

is, who is not able to be present.

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You don't get, you don't get to see

what they're actually capable of.

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When they are trying to hold so much

in and just get through the day, right?

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Like no one wants to be in

a position where you're just

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trying to get through the day.

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You want to be in a position where you can

be open and creative and honest, right?

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That's how employers get

the best work out of people.

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That's how you.

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feel that you are part of a team that you

want to work really hard with and really

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hard for, you know, your, your supervisor.

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If, if you're all kind of in agreement

that you can bring your full self to work.

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Um, I think that employers are starting

to recognize that, but I also think

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that they are hesitant to, to talk

about mental health in the workplace

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because I think that they're concerned

they might open up a can of worms

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that they don't know how to deal with.

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I really should just be like, from your

perspective, Matt, what do you think,

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why do you think it should be important?

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Matt Schuster: Yeah, I think that last

point you made is spot on because,

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you know, when I was, um, in my

last role in the corporate world,

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I was, uh, chief revenue officer.

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So I was 1 of 3 executives overseeing

a large chunk of a company.

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And, um, it was, it was pre pandemic.

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Um, so I know that a lot of the, the

emphasis and, um, you know, a lot of

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the interesting solutions that have come

about really came outta the, the response

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to lockdowns and things like that.

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But, but even then, it just wasn't

something that was top of mind because.

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Especially at a startup or midsize

company, you have so many priorities,

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you have so many things and some days

you're just trying to keep the lights

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on and, you know, tackling a, a systemic

issues such as mental health is very, very

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labor intensive for these organizations

and a lot of them just don't have the

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infrastructure to take on the project.

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So either they roll out something

that falls flat because it's not fully

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baked, um, or they just prioritize other

things because it's not something that's

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mainstream, um, in the corporate world.

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Um, the one thing that I will say

though, is there, there is this common

303

: 00:16:18

understanding around mental health as

a term being very black and white in

304

: 00:16:27

terms of you have mental health problems.

305

: 00:16:32

But when you look at any other,

um, uh, type of health, physical

306

: 00:16:38

health, fitness, illness, it's not,

it, it, there's a spectrum and, and

307

: 00:16:44

mental health is not something that

you are either good or bad with.

308

: 00:16:48

It's, it's always there.

309

: 00:16:49

There's always something going on.

310

: 00:16:51

Even the most confident, successful,

incredible humans on the planet have

311

: 00:16:56

days that are good and days that are bad.

312

: 00:16:58

And just like with exercise.

313

: 00:17:00

Mental health is something that you have

to work towards yourself on an ongoing

314

: 00:17:05

basis and we've, we've really taken the

phrase and turned it into, or it is really

315

: 00:17:14

reflected as something negative when

in actuality it's something that we all

316

: 00:17:18

have to deal with on a day to day basis.

317

: 00:17:20

Tony Tidbit: Dr.

318

: 00:17:21

LeGoy, what's your thoughts on that?

319

: 00:17:23

Dr. Patrice LeGoy: I think that's

such an important point you make,

320

: 00:17:25

Matt, that it is a spectrum.

321

: 00:17:27

Um, and.

322

: 00:17:28

Day to day, you might get it.

323

: 00:17:30

You might get a different version

of what's going on with me.

324

: 00:17:32

And that the point isn't to be healed

for every day to be perfect for you

325

: 00:17:37

to never have any problems, right?

326

: 00:17:39

It's more that when something comes

up that you can take a moment.

327

: 00:17:44

You can process it.

328

: 00:17:45

You can manage it so it doesn't have to

spill over into other parts of your life.

329

: 00:17:49

But I'm so glad that you brought

that up because I think, I think that

330

: 00:17:52

you're, you're correct that people

think mental health is something to

331

: 00:17:55

achieve or mental, you know, having

challenges is something to avoid.

332

: 00:17:59

And that's, it's just not possible.

333

: 00:18:00

I mean, you, you go through your

life, there's going to be challenges.

334

: 00:18:02

It's how, how do we learn

how to deal with them?

335

: 00:18:05

What are the tools that

are available to us?

336

: 00:18:08

So that when, not if these

problems come up, We, we know

337

: 00:18:11

how, we know how to manage them.

338

: 00:18:13

You know, we know who is

safe for us to talk with.

339

: 00:18:15

We know what we need to do for

ourselves, all of those things.

340

: 00:18:19

And I think that it's just, I'm really

glad that you, that you brought that up.

341

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345

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346

: 00:18:49

Tony Tidbit: And speaking of that,

so Matt, why don't you dovetail

347

: 00:18:52

and talk to us a little bit about

some of the things that, and you,

348

: 00:18:57

so number one, let me back up.

349

: 00:18:58

You make it, you just made an

excellent point, um, and I'm glad Dr.

350

: 00:19:02

LeGoy, um, you know, added to it.

351

: 00:19:05

And it's something, you know, there's an

old saying, words paint pictures, okay?

352

: 00:19:11

So when you say mental health, the

picture in somebody's mind is This person

353

: 00:19:17

is crazy or this person is off or this

person versus This person is like you

354

: 00:19:25

guys just got finished saying there's

one and it could be a confidence area

355

: 00:19:28

There could be an area of you know,

am I do I um, uh, am I smart enough?

356

: 00:19:35

There can be an imposter syndrome

area There can be and and I doctor

357

: 00:19:39

who i'm just throwing stuff out You

can dive into you'll dive into it

358

: 00:19:42

further, but there's different little

things that we all go through Right.

359

: 00:19:46

And Matt, what you just got

from the saying was key.

360

: 00:19:49

I don't care if you come

across and somebody think

361

: 00:19:51

they're superman or superwoman.

362

: 00:19:53

There's a day.

363

: 00:19:54

There's a time frame.

364

: 00:19:56

There's a moment where they all of

a sudden kryptonite comes up and

365

: 00:20:01

they feel the lowest of the low.

366

: 00:20:04

Right.

367

: 00:20:04

And it'd be no different than

when you talk physical health.

368

: 00:20:07

Excuse me.

369

: 00:20:08

Yeah.

370

: 00:20:08

Physical health where you catch cold.

371

: 00:20:10

Okay.

372

: 00:20:11

Or, you know, this leg hurts.

373

: 00:20:12

Okay.

374

: 00:20:13

Or, you know, whatever, and

then it's just, it's just one.

375

: 00:20:16

Oh, you got a code.

376

: 00:20:17

You'll be fine.

377

: 00:20:19

All right.

378

: 00:20:19

But when you say mental

health, oh, what do we got it?

379

: 00:20:23

So there's a lot of education.

380

: 00:20:25

So why don't you start off by talking

to the audience about, um, The

381

: 00:20:29

things, the challenges that you were

going through, Matt, and then Dr.

382

: 00:20:33

Legoy, you can jump in from there.

383

: 00:20:36

Matt Schuster: Sure.

384

: 00:20:37

Yeah.

385

: 00:20:37

Um, so the, uh, I won't

go all the way back.

386

: 00:20:42

We'll keep it, keep it somewhat concise.

387

: 00:20:44

If you want to hear the full story,

you can listen to the previous episode.

388

: 00:20:47

Um, but, uh, basically,

uh, I had, like Dr.

389

: 00:20:53

LeGoy had mentioned, um, gotten onto

that escalator, chasing the top of the

390

: 00:20:58

corporate ladder and, you know, went

through a career that started as a

391

: 00:21:03

salesperson, progressed into management,

and ultimately, uh, led to, you know, a

392

: 00:21:10

chief executive, uh, role, uh, running

a large part of an organization.

393

: 00:21:17

you know, along the way, um, some of

the key foundational pieces of my mental

394

: 00:21:25

psyche never formed and never developed.

395

: 00:21:28

And what happened was, is that one

of the things they don't tell you is

396

: 00:21:32

the closer you get to the top, the

more lonely it gets and your peer set

397

: 00:21:37

shrinks and your confidence shrink.

398

: 00:21:40

And.

399

: 00:21:41

You know, those that you can confide

in become fewer and fewer, uh, and if

400

: 00:21:45

you are someone that hasn't developed

certain key traits, those traits being,

401

: 00:21:51

One, um, a foundation of priorities

of self-worth that aren't just tied

402

: 00:21:57

to the work that you do at that job.

403

: 00:22:01

Um, if your entire validation system

is based on your work output, you're

404

: 00:22:06

basically one bad day away from being,

you know, tipping over the edge.

405

: 00:22:10

Um, two, you, you know, did

not build a support system.

406

: 00:22:14

Basically, just assume that I

would get, you know, folks within

407

: 00:22:19

the organization that would fall

into line or fall into place.

408

: 00:22:24

Similarly, that, um, I may have had

in previous organizations or previous

409

: 00:22:28

roles and, um, you know, that led to,

uh, a point of collapse and burnout

410

: 00:22:35

and, um, in spectacular fashion and I'm

sure we'll go into the details, but.

411

: 00:22:41

I had to, at the kind of the height of the

peak of my career, completely walk away.

412

: 00:22:47

And, um, it had nothing

to do with the pandemic.

413

: 00:22:50

It had nothing to do with, um, furloughs

or layoffs or success of the business.

414

: 00:22:55

It was purely.

415

: 00:22:56

You know, I had not, I'd lost the ability

to perform, um, in any work setting,

416

: 00:23:02

let alone in an executive level work

setting, um, and had to basically rebuild

417

: 00:23:08

myself from, from the ground up from

scratch, um, and found a new path in

418

: 00:23:14

life, found, found a path as an athlete,

um, found a path as an entrepreneur,

419

: 00:23:21

uh, and found a passion for a new,

um, Um, direction that I could take my

420

: 00:23:27

life from a career perspective, from a

personal perspective, family perspective.

421

: 00:23:32

Tony Tidbit: Well, number one,

thanks buddy for sharing that.

422

: 00:23:34

Um, and there, you said

a lot there, right?

423

: 00:23:37

Because there's a lot of different

things that you were dealing

424

: 00:23:41

with, um, at that time frame.

425

: 00:23:43

And.

426

: 00:23:44

To be fair, and I'd love

to hear your thoughts, Dr.

427

: 00:23:47

Legoy, it seemed like they

all kind of closed in, right?

428

: 00:23:53

All around the same time.

429

: 00:23:54

Well, in other words, you had this, and

then evolved to this, then evolved to

430

: 00:23:58

this, then evolved to that, where you

were like, I can't take it any longer.

431

: 00:24:02

Right?

432

: 00:24:02

We're going back to what we just got

finished talking about earlier, where

433

: 00:24:05

mental health is multiple things, right?

434

: 00:24:09

So it wasn't just because

some of the things that you

435

: 00:24:11

talked about, I can relate to.

436

: 00:24:14

Okay, I've been in that.

437

: 00:24:16

Position.

438

: 00:24:17

I thought like that, but it wasn't

this, then that, then this, then that.

439

: 00:24:23

Right.

440

: 00:24:24

So, Dr.

441

: 00:24:24

talk a little bit about what Matt was

going through and how in society, what do

442

: 00:24:32

you see when these things start happening?

443

: 00:24:35

And more importantly, how could,

um, Not just the individual, they

444

: 00:24:39

may recognize it or they may not.

445

: 00:24:42

They may just think it's a bad day.

446

: 00:24:44

Right.

447

: 00:24:45

And what's some of the things

that they could do before it

448

: 00:24:48

starts spiraling out of control?

449

: 00:24:51

Dr. Patrice LeGoy: Absolutely.

450

: 00:24:52

I think, you know, starting with that,

that feeling of isolation, I think that

451

: 00:24:57

when we are achieving, you know, on that,

that corporate ladder, you, you kind of

452

: 00:25:04

get, um, sold like a bill of goods, right?

453

: 00:25:07

When I get to this point,

it's going to be like this.

454

: 00:25:10

And you guys are like, wait,

why do I, I don't feel good.

455

: 00:25:13

Like I have the title, I have, I have the

salary, but like something, this doesn't

456

: 00:25:18

feel like the way I thought it would.

457

: 00:25:19

And so there's that, that

disappointment, right?

458

: 00:25:21

We feel like, you know,

that we've been bamboozled.

459

: 00:25:24

And so you're like, well, what do I need?

460

: 00:25:25

I don't know what I need because

this is what I've been working for.

461

: 00:25:27

This is the thing that I've been

thinking about and I thought this

462

: 00:25:29

is what success was, you know?

463

: 00:25:31

And I, so I think that is

one thing that can be really

464

: 00:25:34

confusing to a lot of people.

465

: 00:25:36

And I bet Matt, once you got to

that point, you might feel like,

466

: 00:25:40

who's going to be sympathetic to me?

467

: 00:25:42

Who's going to feel bad for me?

468

: 00:25:43

I have this title, you know,

I've, I've achieved this.

469

: 00:25:45

You're an old poor guy, you know?

470

: 00:25:47

And so I think that we, we

hesitate, you know, to share things,

471

: 00:25:51

especially when you're at that level.

472

: 00:25:53

Um, because it seems like this

should be what makes you happy.

473

: 00:25:57

Do you know what I mean?

474

: 00:25:58

Yeah, I think also That combined

with, um, and is connected to having

475

: 00:26:05

your job be such a major part of your

identity that you feel lost without it.

476

: 00:26:10

Like it can cause us to remain

in a situation that is not good

477

: 00:26:15

for us because this is who I am.

478

: 00:26:18

If you ask me who I am, I

tell you what I do, right?

479

: 00:26:20

I did when you first asked me, Tony,

you know, okay, tell us about yourself.

480

: 00:26:23

I started with what I do.

481

: 00:26:25

Um, and I think a lot of us do, you know,

and we probably all heard stories of

482

: 00:26:29

people who Work in a position, retire,

and then a few months later, they have

483

: 00:26:35

to wait like that was their life, right?

484

: 00:26:37

That was their life.

485

: 00:26:38

That was what kept them going.

486

: 00:26:39

And so I think then to tie into, you know,

another point that you made, Matt, is

487

: 00:26:45

not building that support system, right?

488

: 00:26:48

So that it.

489

: 00:26:50

We find ourselves feeling isolated

when we get into that position.

490

: 00:26:53

If we find that, you know, our whole

identity feels like it's our job,

491

: 00:26:56

then we have someone who knows us,

knows that we are not defined by what

492

: 00:27:01

we do, by what our title is, like,

that all kind of needs to happen.

493

: 00:27:05

And I love and appreciate how you.

494

: 00:27:08

Rebuilt that for yourself when

you when you realize this is not

495

: 00:27:12

what it was cracked up to be.

496

: 00:27:13

This is not doing it for me.

497

: 00:27:14

I need to find another way.

498

: 00:27:16

Um, and that's not easy to do.

499

: 00:27:18

You know, I think a lot of people just

keep going, um, and kind of are suffering

500

: 00:27:23

internally without really sharing it.

501

: 00:27:25

So, you know, I think that you

sharing your story can probably make

502

: 00:27:28

a lot of people feel less alone.

503

: 00:27:33

Matt Schuster: It's 100 percent

true and I think the whole concept

504

: 00:27:37

of suffering and silence, um, is.

505

: 00:27:40

There's more people that are

experiencing that than there are not.

506

: 00:27:45

And, um, and a lot of times

they don't even realize it.

507

: 00:27:49

A lot of times it's just been

built as a societal norm.

508

: 00:27:53

Like, oh yeah, this is, um,

it's supposed to feel like this.

509

: 00:27:57

This is what success feels like.

510

: 00:27:59

It's struggle.

511

: 00:27:59

It's hard.

512

: 00:28:00

It's uncomfortable.

513

: 00:28:01

It's lonely.

514

: 00:28:02

And, and then if you go too far and go

over the edge and then you're able to.

515

: 00:28:08

You know, wake up from the matrix, so

to speak, and look like, wait a minute.

516

: 00:28:12

No, life's not supposed to feel like that.

517

: 00:28:17

The structure you built for yourself.

518

: 00:28:20

And, and I phrased that

specifically like that because.

519

: 00:28:23

It's not an organization's job

to make sure that you are taking

520

: 00:28:31

care of your mental health.

521

: 00:28:33

It's your responsibility, just like

it's your responsibility to eat

522

: 00:28:37

healthy and eat your vegetables.

523

: 00:28:39

Um, it is their responsibility

to recognize and support 100%.

524

: 00:28:44

But, um, I think not knowing and not

learning the basics, um, And then

525

: 00:28:52

jumping into all of those, you know,

trials and tribulations of the top.

526

: 00:28:58

Um, you know, there's a lot of people out

there that are, are, are experiencing this

527

: 00:29:02

now and don't even realize that they're,

they're, you know, on this treadmill.

528

: 00:29:08

Um, and, uh, and I think that, you know,

one of the things we'll, I assume we're

529

: 00:29:14

going to get into is kind of how to

recognize it and, you know, what are,

530

: 00:29:19

what are the signs or the symptoms either?

531

: 00:29:21

For you to see it for yourself,

or for you to see it in others

532

: 00:29:26

that may be struggling with it.

533

: 00:29:27

But, um,

534

: 00:29:29

Dr. Patrice LeGoy: yeah, I think that, uh,

you know, it is an important distinction

535

: 00:29:33

between what is like a company's

and organizations responsibility.

536

: 00:29:36

And what is yours?

537

: 00:29:38

I think that organizations can

create environments that are

538

: 00:29:41

more open, um, that people do not

feel like they will be punished.

539

: 00:29:46

Or ignored if they're having

challenges and that part of the

540

: 00:29:51

personal responsibility that

you mentioned is so important.

541

: 00:29:53

Because if I work for a company.

542

: 00:29:56

And they're, they're thinking,

okay, well, let's really prioritize

543

: 00:30:00

mental health and everything.

544

: 00:30:01

And I leave and go to another company, I'm

still bringing my issues with me, right?

545

: 00:30:05

Even the best company

cannot fix that for you.

546

: 00:30:09

They can do things to make that process

easier or, um, normalize that experience.

547

: 00:30:15

And we have to figure out what are the

things that I uniquely as a person need

548

: 00:30:20

to, to move through this moment, to.

549

: 00:30:23

To be ready for the next

challenges that come, right?

550

: 00:30:25

So I think it's really, um, it's

really a partnership with you having

551

: 00:30:29

to be in the driver's seat for sure.

552

: 00:30:31

Tony Tidbit: So Dr.

553

: 00:30:32

LeGoy, thanks for that.

554

: 00:30:33

You too, Matt.

555

: 00:30:34

Let me ask you this,

cause I agree with you.

556

: 00:30:37

They think, well, how much.

557

: 00:30:40

Um, in terms of the company, so when

we and again, we're painting broad

558

: 00:30:44

brushes when we use words like company.

559

: 00:30:47

Okay.

560

: 00:30:48

When we, the company is not

responsible for people's mental health.

561

: 00:30:52

Right?

562

: 00:30:53

Where we should be talking

more or it shouldn't be.

563

: 00:30:56

We should talk more about their manager.

564

: 00:30:59

Right?

565

: 00:31:00

Because if you are a manager, And you're

building relationships, honest, authentic

566

: 00:31:06

relationships with people, right?

567

: 00:31:09

Would that have some type of

effect in terms of people feeling

568

: 00:31:12

a little bit more comfortable?

569

: 00:31:14

Because I've had people on my team and,

and look, you don't know all the time,

570

: 00:31:21

but when you work with somebody over and

over again, you have a relationship and

571

: 00:31:26

then you start seeing them Little quiet,

or maybe a little frantic or something,

572

: 00:31:32

or, you know, they're not speaking out

like they usually speak or whatever.

573

: 00:31:37

You kind of say, Hey,

Matt, let me chat with you.

574

: 00:31:40

Is everything okay?

575

: 00:31:42

Cause you notice something

about that individual.

576

: 00:31:44

So speak a little bit about that in

terms of how, you know, somebody, and

577

: 00:31:49

let's tie that into triggers because

that goes into, you know, what's the

578

: 00:31:53

trigger that somebody should look for.

579

: 00:31:57

All right.

580

: 00:31:58

What's number one.

581

: 00:31:58

What's the trigger that unfortunately

makes the, uh, issues that

582

: 00:32:03

people have from a mental health

standpoint become more stronger?

583

: 00:32:08

And then what's some of the triggers that

as a colleague or a friend that we should

584

: 00:32:12

look forward to in terms of recognizing

there could be an issue regardless

585

: 00:32:16

if somebody says something or not?

586

: 00:32:19

Dr. Patrice LeGoy: I think that what

you're describing, okay, don't don't

587

: 00:32:21

take this analogy the wrong way.

588

: 00:32:22

But, you know, if you're a parent,

it is your responsibility to.

589

: 00:32:27

Model to your child how to

handle conflict, how to deal

590

: 00:32:32

with challenges that they have.

591

: 00:32:34

Right?

592

: 00:32:34

They see you and they will behave as

you do, no matter what you tell them,

593

: 00:32:38

they're going to behave as you do.

594

: 00:32:40

Right?

595

: 00:32:40

So it's really important to model for

them how to work with other people

596

: 00:32:45

who are different than them, you

know, whether they're playing on a

597

: 00:32:46

sports team or that kind of thing.

598

: 00:32:49

When you are a leader of an organization,

I'm not saying your employees, you know,

599

: 00:32:52

your colleagues or children, but I am

saying that you power in a position

600

: 00:32:56

of responsibility to model for them.

601

: 00:32:59

Being a real, genuine, authentic

person in the workplace, right?

602

: 00:33:04

And you're, you're, you're right, Tony.

603

: 00:33:06

I think that, I think

it's a really good point.

604

: 00:33:08

We're not getting every corporation to

change, but the people that work within

605

: 00:33:12

corporations can, can change and it can be

subtle, but there people will know when,

606

: 00:33:18

okay, I feel that my team is, is safe.

607

: 00:33:21

I can share things with that.

608

: 00:33:23

Um, I don't, they're not going to

run to HR and say, you know, I have a

609

: 00:33:26

problem necessarily, but maybe they can.

610

: 00:33:28

Provide resources for me, or

maybe just lend an ear, you know,

611

: 00:33:32

sometimes that's what people need.

612

: 00:33:33

And I think that that

is what managers can do.

613

: 00:33:38

And sometimes, you know, your

coworkers many times, maybe can tie

614

: 00:33:43

into some of the triggers, right?

615

: 00:33:44

Okay.

616

: 00:33:44

This, this person reminds me of my mom

and she always treated me like this.

617

: 00:33:48

And so now my encounters with you, Are

different because I'm carrying my baggage

618

: 00:33:54

that maybe doesn't belong in that space.

619

: 00:33:56

Right?

620

: 00:33:57

But I also think triggers can, you

know, happen from just what we're

621

: 00:34:00

dealing with, you know, every day.

622

: 00:34:02

Like, if I have a fight with my spouse

and I go into work and I feel like

623

: 00:34:06

my boss is giving me a hard time.

624

: 00:34:09

They're not going to understand

where I'm coming from, but because.

625

: 00:34:12

I can't tell you.

626

: 00:34:13

Hey, I just need a second.

627

: 00:34:14

I need to think about that.

628

: 00:34:15

Or I haven't myself figured out how to

manage what's going on with me before

629

: 00:34:20

it's projected on to other people.

630

: 00:34:22

It's going to come into the work triggers

completely different for all of us.

631

: 00:34:27

Um, and we are more easily triggered

when we are not used to being in tune

632

: 00:34:32

with what's happening with ourselves.

633

: 00:34:34

So having are seeing other people do that.

634

: 00:34:38

Tony Tidbit: Matt, what's

your thoughts on that?

635

: 00:34:39

My brother?

636

: 00:34:41

Matt Schuster: No, I think, um,

your point is, is super valid.

637

: 00:34:45

I think it's the, you know, the

organization, the responsibility is

638

: 00:34:50

to be sympathetic and prioritize,

um, a safe space for its employees.

639

: 00:34:59

It's the managers got the

active role, just like in any

640

: 00:35:02

other aspect of management.

641

: 00:35:03

Right.

642

: 00:35:03

It's, it's their job to

actually create that space.

643

: 00:35:08

And that's really the ultimate, um, or

the biggest responsibility that comes from

644

: 00:35:14

the employer, which is, um, can you create

an environment for your employees where

645

: 00:35:19

they're comfortable, where they can speak

up where they can, you know, they have

646

: 00:35:23

resources or someone to reach out to that.

647

: 00:35:26

Won't necessarily negatively

impact their social status or

648

: 00:35:31

their, you know, professional

status within the organization.

649

: 00:35:34

Um, and that, that fear is gone and that

they can, they can be a bit vulnerable.

650

: 00:35:40

Um, that's a, that's a hard thing to

accomplish because it is not just.

651

: 00:35:46

Policy that, that requires human

beings that requires, I mean,

652

: 00:35:51

that's, you know, I wouldn't be

653

: 00:35:53

Tony Tidbit: human beings.

654

: 00:35:54

Right?

655

: 00:35:54

Matt Schuster: Yeah.

656

: 00:35:55

I mean, I mean, that's something that

you did really well as a manager.

657

: 00:35:58

We, we worked directly together for half

a decade and, um, you know, 1 of the

658

: 00:36:04

things that you always, always prioritize

is that no matter what's going on, you

659

: 00:36:08

know, you have to be real with each other

and you have to share what's going on.

660

: 00:36:13

Cause you know, none of us are

as much as we try to be, but

661

: 00:36:16

none of us are mind readers.

662

: 00:36:17

You know, we can't tell what's going

on, but, um, you know, saying that and,

663

: 00:36:23

and acting, um, leading by example and,

you know, being able to be transparent,

664

: 00:36:31

um, you know, those are the things that

the managers, you know, can instill into

665

: 00:36:36

their teams to create that environment.

666

: 00:36:38

Um, I think the, the concept

of triggers or, or signals, um,

667

: 00:36:46

that's an interesting one, right?

668

: 00:36:47

Because we said in the beginning.

669

: 00:36:49

Uh, the people that are suffering

the most show at the least and, you

670

: 00:36:54

know, the, in that sense, one of the

signs actually becomes no sign, right?

671

: 00:37:01

Like, we may not be mind readers, but

we're logical humans and we can see,

672

: 00:37:06

you know, 1 plus 2 plus 3, you know,

this person just lost a big deal.

673

: 00:37:10

Um, you know, just had an argument with

a coworker and just had something else.

674

: 00:37:16

As a human, I can look at that and

go, wow, I'd be pretty stressed out.

675

: 00:37:19

They don't seem stressed out at all.

676

: 00:37:22

Something's probably wrong

because they're masking it or

677

: 00:37:24

hiding it or doing something.

678

: 00:37:26

Um, but you know, we're not,

it's not acceptable to go up

679

: 00:37:32

and be like, Hey, are you okay?

680

: 00:37:34

I know you've been through a

lot, but, um, you know, maybe you

681

: 00:37:37

need to decompress a little bit.

682

: 00:37:39

The natural reaction to that

person is like, nah, I'm fine.

683

: 00:37:42

Don't worry about it.

684

: 00:37:44

Gotta, gotta put on the armor.

685

: 00:37:45

Um, but the reality is

that you can see it.

686

: 00:37:48

Like, uh, if you, if you would be

overwhelmed by something by watching

687

: 00:37:52

it, odds are that the person is

probably a bit overwhelmed, whether

688

: 00:37:56

they want to admit it or not.

689

: 00:37:57

Um, because we are all very

special, but at the same time,

690

: 00:38:01

we're all not all that special.

691

: 00:38:02

We all can react in very

similar ways to stresses.

692

: 00:38:06

So,

693

: 00:38:08

Tony Tidbit: so Dr.

694

: 00:38:08

Legoy, based on what Matt just got,

because that's an excellent point, right?

695

: 00:38:11

Um, you know, most people, when

we look, when we have issues.

696

: 00:38:17

We, we tend to hide them or

do our best and hide them.

697

: 00:38:20

Right?

698

: 00:38:21

Um, we don't let our

emotions get the best of us.

699

: 00:38:24

We always, you know, that.

700

: 00:38:26

And again, this is part of the part

of moving up in an organization

701

: 00:38:31

is being positive, right?

702

: 00:38:33

Overcoming challenges.

703

: 00:38:34

Like, when I was in the army,

nobody wanted to hear about,

704

: 00:38:37

you couldn't hack this.

705

: 00:38:38

This or, uh, you need,

you need a mental break.

706

: 00:38:41

You kidding me?

707

: 00:38:42

And even though you did,

you ain't saying it.

708

: 00:38:45

All right.

709

: 00:38:46

Even though you're scared about the

next drill or whatever the case may be.

710

: 00:38:49

You're not going to tell nobody

that you're going to, I'm okay.

711

: 00:38:53

You know, uh, the, the term I hate

today when I hear people say, Hey,

712

: 00:38:56

how you doing living the dream?

713

: 00:38:58

I'm like, that's the weakest.

714

: 00:38:59

Every time I hear it, I know they lie.

715

: 00:39:02

All right.

716

: 00:39:02

John, why even say it?

717

: 00:39:04

Right.

718

: 00:39:04

But we say it because we want to.

719

: 00:39:07

Project that we're doing okay.

720

: 00:39:10

All right.

721

: 00:39:11

And so, and look, this is a million

books and we as Americans is about

722

: 00:39:15

overcoming and all those type things.

723

: 00:39:18

So talk a little bit

about when somebody does.

724

: 00:39:21

I think that's really the key, right?

725

: 00:39:23

Talk a little bit about what can

you do internally for yourself?

726

: 00:39:27

To try to get yourself out of that,

you may not tell somebody, but

727

: 00:39:32

what can you do mentally to try to

change the course of the situation?

728

: 00:39:38

I talk about from a stress, you

know, that I want to show it, but

729

: 00:39:41

I am stressed out or I'm really, I

lost this deal because I'm no good

730

: 00:39:46

when it had nothing to do with you.

731

: 00:39:48

You know what I'm saying?

732

: 00:39:48

So you're now internalizing this.

733

: 00:39:51

And now it's starting to

spiral out of control.

734

: 00:39:54

Okay.

735

: 00:39:54

So talk about some of the

things people could do.

736

: 00:39:57

Dr. Patrice LeGoy: I think step one is,

is part of what we're trying to do now,

737

: 00:40:00

which is normalizing this conversation.

738

: 00:40:02

There are all kinds of reasons

that people feel like they

739

: 00:40:05

have to keep it to themselves.

740

: 00:40:06

But I think we can all acknowledge we

live in an individualistic society where

741

: 00:40:10

people love self made stories independent.

742

: 00:40:13

I did it on my own.

743

: 00:40:14

Right.

744

: 00:40:14

It's so much in the culture of America.

745

: 00:40:17

Okay.

746

: 00:40:17

Um, it's so celebrated that that doesn't

leave a lot of space for some of the

747

: 00:40:22

more collectivistic virtues of working

as a team, doing things together,

748

: 00:40:28

sharing our challenges and our successes.

749

: 00:40:31

Right?

750

: 00:40:31

That's it's just, this is

the society where we are.

751

: 00:40:33

We can recognize that.

752

: 00:40:34

And then we can think

about how do I make my.

753

: 00:40:39

Microcosm, my team, how do I make it not

like those of the, those are like the

754

: 00:40:45

most, the values that we most focus on.

755

: 00:40:49

Right?

756

: 00:40:49

How do I, how do I make sure that

people understand that I value as

757

: 00:40:53

an individual, but I don't expect

you to do everything by yourself.

758

: 00:40:56

How do we give ourselves that

kind of grace to remember that

759

: 00:41:00

whatever your successes are,

whatever your challenges are.

760

: 00:41:03

There's other people along the way.

761

: 00:41:04

There's other people who

helped you get to that level.

762

: 00:41:06

So you're not alone, right?

763

: 00:41:08

And when you then also, when you are

having a tough time, you're also,

764

: 00:41:12

you also don't need to be alone.

765

: 00:41:14

Um, and I think that a lot of it is just,

um, you know, you mentioned spirals.

766

: 00:41:19

We can get in just a shame spiral

about, I should, I should be good.

767

: 00:41:23

I should be fine.

768

: 00:41:23

I'm just going to act like it is

until hopefully one day I wake

769

: 00:41:26

up and all my problems are gone.

770

: 00:41:26

This doesn't really work like that.

771

: 00:41:28

Sometimes you're having a tough day

and you do feel better the next day.

772

: 00:41:32

But when you are in deep, and as

we were talking earlier, all these

773

: 00:41:35

things are piling on each other.

774

: 00:41:38

You have, there needs to be action

that has to be taken, right?

775

: 00:41:40

We need to be thinking about this

old formula is not working for me.

776

: 00:41:44

No matter how much I've been sold on,

this is, this is the thing I should want.

777

: 00:41:48

And I should be happy at this level.

778

: 00:41:50

I personally, I may need something else.

779

: 00:41:53

How do I figure out what that is?

780

: 00:41:56

How do I give myself space and

grace to figure out what that

781

: 00:41:59

is without feeling bad about it?

782

: 00:42:01

Cause just feeling bad about it

doesn't really like get us, you know,

783

: 00:42:04

moving towards what is healthy for us.

784

: 00:42:06

We just feel bad.

785

: 00:42:07

We just feel bad and, and that is, can

be pAddralyzing for a lot of people.

786

: 00:42:12

BEP Narrator: If you like what you hear

and want to join us on this journey

787

: 00:42:14

of making uncomfortable conversations

comfortable, please subscribe to a

788

: 00:42:18

Black Executive Perspective podcast

on YouTube, Apple Podcasts, Spotify,

789

: 00:42:22

or wherever you get your podcasts.

790

: 00:42:24

Hit subscribe now to stay connected

for more episodes that challenge,

791

: 00:42:27

inspire, and lead the change.

792

: 00:42:29

Matt,

793

: 00:42:31

Tony Tidbit: what's your thoughts on that?

794

: 00:42:34

Matt Schuster: Oh, I have a lot.

795

: 00:42:35

Uh,

796

: 00:42:38

um, I'll, I'll, I'll throw the

caveat out there that what I'm

797

: 00:42:41

about to share is my own experience.

798

: 00:42:43

Um, this is what worked for me

and, um, it may work for you.

799

: 00:42:47

I encourage you to give it a try.

800

: 00:42:49

Um, so the first thing is, you know,

you talked about the shame spiral, um,

801

: 00:42:59

take an inventory of everything that's

going on in your head, in your life,

802

: 00:43:04

you know, Basically your existence and,

and really take a, um, objective point

803

: 00:43:11

of view of what do you have that's,

that's currently happening physically.

804

: 00:43:16

And then what is going on in your head

emotionally and odds are those things

805

: 00:43:22

are probably not going to line up.

806

: 00:43:24

Um, and what that's going to do is

really shine a light on what direction

807

: 00:43:30

your inner monologue is going in.

808

: 00:43:32

Everyone's got an inner dialogue, you

know, whether it's, you know, Man, I

809

: 00:43:36

can't believe I missed that shot when

you were playing golf or whatever, but

810

: 00:43:39

the inner monologue can, can build and

become so loud and it's completely tied

811

: 00:43:47

to your nervous system, whether you're in

a sympathetic or pAddrasympathetic state.

812

: 00:43:52

Um, and if you're in that fight or

flight state, that noise, that, that

813

: 00:43:57

voice is just going to be like, get

out, get out, get out, whatever you do,

814

: 00:44:00

run away, run away, get away from that.

815

: 00:44:01

And it's going to say whatever it

has to, and what ends up happening,

816

: 00:44:07

if you become falling down this

slope, um, into the shame spiral,

817

: 00:44:13

it's just going to latch onto, you

need to get out of that situation.

818

: 00:44:17

So I'm going to tell you the darkest,

dirtiest, most awful things that make you

819

: 00:44:21

never want to go back to that place again.

820

: 00:44:23

And it gets in your ear like when I

was at my lowest point, I would wake

821

: 00:44:28

up and the first thought in my head

was like, You are so bad at your job.

822

: 00:44:32

You're, you're, you're a terrible father.

823

: 00:44:34

You're not even home.

824

: 00:44:35

Like, why do you even exist?

825

: 00:44:37

The only thing you're worth is your

health or your life insurance policy.

826

: 00:44:41

Why don't you just leave that to the kids?

827

: 00:44:43

Like, these are the things

that, this is the noise.

828

: 00:44:45

These are the things that

are said in your head.

829

: 00:44:47

So taking an inventory.

830

: 00:44:49

To understand, all right, what

is actually happening and then

831

: 00:44:54

breaking it down into what of that

can you control and what can't you?

832

: 00:45:00

Because there's always things

that you can control, right?

833

: 00:45:02

Like, all right, I am,

this was my situation.

834

: 00:45:06

I'm completely out of shape.

835

: 00:45:07

I'm 40 pounds overweight.

836

: 00:45:09

My cholesterol is through the roof.

837

: 00:45:10

I'm sleeping four hours a night.

838

: 00:45:12

Um, you know, I'm struggling to get

out of bed, to go to work every day.

839

: 00:45:17

Um, things at work seem to be

going okay, but I feel terrible

840

: 00:45:22

even when the good things happen.

841

: 00:45:24

And, um, you know, I'm not present at

all, really, as a father right now.

842

: 00:45:30

So across that, what can you control?

843

: 00:45:32

Well, you shift over to things, you

know, action is created by action.

844

: 00:45:37

So, all right, I'm going to

start getting into shape.

845

: 00:45:39

I'm going to start making

better eating choices.

846

: 00:45:43

I won't get into the whole connection

between physical health and mental health.

847

: 00:45:47

I think that's a whole different podcast,

but, um, let's start doing the things

848

: 00:45:51

that we can do and then it'll carry over.

849

: 00:45:54

Right.

850

: 00:45:54

All of a sudden things start to

progress and get a little bit better.

851

: 00:45:57

Um, the next big thing

that I did that helped was.

852

: 00:46:01

It's using tactics to approach

hard situations and hard thoughts.

853

: 00:46:09

Uh, and the biggest one that worked for

me was, um, basically a type of reframing.

854

: 00:46:16

So taking a situation that happened

and usually it's the reaction

855

: 00:46:21

was, Oh my God, it's awful.

856

: 00:46:22

I'm terrible.

857

: 00:46:23

I'm just, everything's going to

go down and isolating out the

858

: 00:46:28

emotional reaction and being excited.

859

: 00:46:30

Which.

860

: 00:46:31

Which of these is driven by fear?

861

: 00:46:34

Uh, and which of these is driven

by association with failure?

862

: 00:46:38

And how can I turn those into,

um, actionable and accountable

863

: 00:46:45

steps that I could take?

864

: 00:46:46

Right?

865

: 00:46:47

So like, You know, somebody came in

and one of my managers is having a

866

: 00:46:51

problem with another employee that

they've been having for a long time.

867

: 00:46:55

Initial reaction.

868

: 00:46:57

Oh man, uh, interpersonal conflict.

869

: 00:47:00

I don't know how to deal with this.

870

: 00:47:01

All right, take the fear out.

871

: 00:47:02

What can I actually do?

872

: 00:47:03

Boom, boom, boom, boom,

boom, and then go activate.

873

: 00:47:06

And it's just reframing your perspective

from what you're scared of a situation

874

: 00:47:11

to what you can do about the situation.

875

: 00:47:13

And you apply that across the board.

876

: 00:47:15

Um, and then the, the last big one

was, um, doing a lot of, uh, I guess

877

: 00:47:25

you'd call it mindfulness work.

878

: 00:47:27

So we underestimate this, but taking

10 minutes, 15 minutes to essentially

879

: 00:47:34

try to do a reset, to give your brain

a chance to just, Process things.

880

: 00:47:41

Uh, and this doesn't have

to be full blown meditation.

881

: 00:47:44

This doesn't have to be,

uh, some drawn out thing.

882

: 00:47:47

It could just simply be sitting

in a quiet room for 10 minutes.

883

: 00:47:51

But just sitting down, focusing on

your breathing, letting everything

884

: 00:47:57

calm down, letting yourself reset.

885

: 00:48:00

Um, it was so eye opening the first

time I did it because you come

886

: 00:48:06

out of it just with almost like an

instantaneous different perspective.

887

: 00:48:10

You finally got your body to calm down.

888

: 00:48:12

You finally got your nervous

system to switch over.

889

: 00:48:16

And you can think clearly, you're not

thinking off of, you know, adrenaline

890

: 00:48:19

and cortisol, you're thinking off of,

you know, normal hormonal balance.

891

: 00:48:25

Um, so those are the three

big things that I did.

892

: 00:48:27

And those are the three things

that had the biggest impact for me.

893

: 00:48:31

Um, obviously those

didn't happen overnight.

894

: 00:48:33

They were, you know, built skills that

were built over the course of months.

895

: 00:48:40

Um, but those are some, I

would call them shorter term

896

: 00:48:44

strategies that someone can take.

897

: 00:48:46

Um, to, to apply,

898

: 00:48:48

Dr. Patrice LeGoy: but

899

: 00:48:50

Tony Tidbit: it is awesome.

900

: 00:48:51

Dr.

901

: 00:48:51

LeGoy, what's your thoughts?

902

: 00:48:52

I think those are

903

: 00:48:52

really fantastic strategies.

904

: 00:48:54

And I think that we can think about,

you know, you said, this is just your

905

: 00:48:57

story, but I think that it has broad,

uh, implications, um, are broad,

906

: 00:49:03

um, broad ways to apply it, right?

907

: 00:49:05

Applications.

908

: 00:49:06

Um, I think that something

like deciding that you're going

909

: 00:49:11

to look after your health.

910

: 00:49:13

So by exercising, by eating

well, you're also signaling.

911

: 00:49:16

To yourself, I'm prioritizing me and

I'm prioritizing you, my wellbeing.

912

: 00:49:21

So if you used to be a person

who worked late every night, you

913

: 00:49:23

were prioritizing work, right?

914

: 00:49:25

And you're not, you're not prioritizing

any of those kinds of things.

915

: 00:49:28

Now you've said I am

doing something for me.

916

: 00:49:32

Like it takes a little bit of practice,

but it is so, I'm important or I can't be

917

: 00:49:38

myself if I'm not taking care of my needs.

918

: 00:49:42

Matt Schuster: Yeah.

919

: 00:49:43

Well, so one thing on that,

I have the ultimate test.

920

: 00:49:47

To see if anyone actually does that

If you are someone that uses the

921

: 00:49:50

calendar if you live and die by your

calendar I challenge you to open it up.

922

: 00:49:55

What percentage of the stuff on your

calendar is work related and how

923

: 00:49:59

many things are not work related and

how many things are just for you?

924

: 00:50:03

And I guAddrantee you the vast

majority of people, the only

925

: 00:50:07

stuff on there is work and chores.

926

: 00:50:09

Dr. Patrice LeGoy: For people who are,

927

: 00:50:10

Matt Schuster: there's nothing on there.

928

: 00:50:11

Dr. Patrice LeGoy: That's right.

929

: 00:50:12

Because you're like,

okay, this is important.

930

: 00:50:13

I need to remember cause I'm

going to put it on my calendar.

931

: 00:50:15

What if I scheduled that meditation time?

932

: 00:50:18

You know, Okay.

933

: 00:50:19

Yeah, that's important.

934

: 00:50:20

I blocked out my calendar.

935

: 00:50:21

I prioritize that.

936

: 00:50:22

And I think that I really liked what

you said about The meditation and it

937

: 00:50:27

doesn't need to be done only this way.

938

: 00:50:29

This is the right way to do it.

939

: 00:50:30

This is the wrong way, you

know, an acceptable way.

940

: 00:50:32

It's what works for you.

941

: 00:50:34

Um, making those kinds

of techniques accessible.

942

: 00:50:39

So you might be a person

who is, I can't meditate.

943

: 00:50:41

I can't quiet my brain.

944

: 00:50:43

And maybe, maybe that's

difficult to do now.

945

: 00:50:45

So what is available?

946

: 00:50:46

Is a walk outside available to you?

947

: 00:50:48

Because that's also meditative.

948

: 00:50:49

If you're looking around and you're paying

attention, you're not taking a work call

949

: 00:50:52

while you're going for a walk, right?

950

: 00:50:54

Then that can be meditative.

951

: 00:50:55

Um, so I think making those things

accessible and tailoring them to

952

: 00:51:00

what is available to us and what our

needs are, um, is, is so important.

953

: 00:51:04

Um, rather than trying to do it,

The way that we've been told to do.

954

: 00:51:08

So if I'm not spending 2 hours in

yoga every day, then not, I'm not,

955

: 00:51:11

you know, practicing self care.

956

: 00:51:12

It's like, no, no, it depends on what

I need and what, what fulfills me,

957

: 00:51:18

what, what response to those needs.

958

: 00:51:19

And that's going to be a little bit

different to all of us, but I think that

959

: 00:51:22

overall, that the concepts that you raise.

960

: 00:51:25

Are ones that benefit all of us looking

after yourself, taking time to be

961

: 00:51:30

with yourself, prioritizing those

kinds of things is, is really key.

962

: 00:51:37

Tony Tidbit: Let me, and I,

and he talked about them.

963

: 00:51:39

So how much those things are great,

but what about the self talk as well?

964

: 00:51:44

Right.

965

: 00:51:45

Because you were just saying

earlier, Matt, I'm the worst dad.

966

: 00:51:49

I'm not.

967

: 00:51:49

This right?

968

: 00:51:50

And then you talked about

reprogramming and, you know, a great

969

: 00:51:53

book I read a long time ago is, um,

how to talk to yourself by chat.

970

: 00:51:57

Chad Helmstead.

971

: 00:51:58

I think his name was, and he

talked about our minds are like

972

: 00:52:02

hard drives of a computer and

it only does what you tell it.

973

: 00:52:06

Okay, so if and he used a great example,

because we're creatures of habit and all

974

: 00:52:12

of a sudden, let's use Matt's example.

975

: 00:52:14

Well, you know what?

976

: 00:52:14

I'm not going to I'm not

going to think that way again.

977

: 00:52:17

Right?

978

: 00:52:17

And he use it.

979

: 00:52:18

He comes up with example.

980

: 00:52:20

Like, you have a apartment of old

furniture and you're like, I'm done

981

: 00:52:24

with this and you take all that old

furniture and you put it in the hallway.

982

: 00:52:27

Right?

983

: 00:52:27

Now, you sit in an empty apartment.

984

: 00:52:29

Well, you haven't

replaced it with anything.

985

: 00:52:31

So now you start thinking like, well,

that old couch, wasn't that bad.

986

: 00:52:36

Go grab the old couch

and bring it back in.

987

: 00:52:38

Right.

988

: 00:52:38

Instead of filling it up

with new self talk, right.

989

: 00:52:42

New things.

990

: 00:52:43

I'm not a terrible dad.

991

: 00:52:44

I'm a great dad.

992

: 00:52:45

I'm not tired.

993

: 00:52:47

You know, those little things by

just saying them over and over again.

994

: 00:52:52

Believe it or not.

995

: 00:52:53

So I love to hear you guys's thoughts.

996

: 00:52:55

Matt, Dr.

997

: 00:52:56

Legoy.

998

: 00:52:56

What's your thoughts on self talking?

999

: 00:53:00

Matt Schuster: Yeah, I think the there's

a lot of, there are a lot of books.

: 1000

00:53:05,555 --> 00:53:08,575

Um, there's actually a really

good one called soul for happy.

: 1001

00:53:09,280 --> 00:53:14,740

Um, and it was one of the, um, one

of the big engineers over at Google,

: 1002

00:53:14,840 --> 00:53:21,770

um, he was part of the Google, like,

um, uh, like development teams.

: 1003

00:53:21,770 --> 00:53:25,260

And he said, you know, I wonder if

I could solve for happy, like a math

: 1004

00:53:25,260 --> 00:53:29,290

equation, I'm going to do, but there's

a whole section around self talk.

: 1005

00:53:29,290 --> 00:53:34,330

And the biggest takeaway is

recognizing that by virtue of

: 1006

00:53:34,340 --> 00:53:37,250

hearing it, the talk is not you.

: 1007

00:53:38,385 --> 00:53:41,925

Like, it can't be you because

it's talking to you, but it's in

: 1008

00:53:41,925 --> 00:53:45,535

your head, so you assume and you

associate and identify with it.

: 1009

00:53:45,895 --> 00:53:50,295

But being able to sepAddrate and

understand that whatever voice

: 1010

00:53:50,295 --> 00:53:53,315

is coming in is not your thought.

: 1011

00:53:53,375 --> 00:53:58,135

It's a manifestation off of a

reaction of something going on.

: 1012

00:53:58,675 --> 00:54:04,535

Um, making that disconnection

is step one and it's, it's huge.

: 1013

00:54:05,255 --> 00:54:08,305

Because then you can actually say, like,

all right, I don't need to listen to that.

: 1014

00:54:08,755 --> 00:54:09,675

Because that's not me.

: 1015

00:54:10,255 --> 00:54:14,935

Um, the, the other part of it,

though, is, you know, you need, you

: 1016

00:54:14,935 --> 00:54:20,285

need to do the work so that you can

counterbalance that potential, you

: 1017

00:54:20,285 --> 00:54:24,295

know, one, if you're, if you're doing

these correctly, the self talk is

: 1018

00:54:24,305 --> 00:54:26,025

not as negative, not as strong, but.

: 1019

00:54:26,385 --> 00:54:30,745

Um, you have to do the work to have

other values and points of validation

: 1020

00:54:30,745 --> 00:54:35,865

in your life that, you know, create

all the aspects of who you are.

: 1021

00:54:35,865 --> 00:54:39,455

If you're fully associated to one

thing, if all you are is work.

: 1022

00:54:39,845 --> 00:54:43,855

And then work goes bad, boom, negative

self talk is going to take over all day.

: 1023

00:54:44,465 --> 00:54:48,055

But if you have, if you're a diversified

human being, you know, like a stock

: 1024

00:54:48,055 --> 00:54:53,575

portfolio and, you know, you, your

priorities are broken up as such,

: 1025

00:54:54,295 --> 00:54:58,075

you know, it's hard for anything

to latch on to one specific thing.

: 1026

00:54:58,525 --> 00:55:03,575

So I think it's, you know, identifying

that it's not you and that it is a, it's

: 1027

00:55:03,575 --> 00:55:06,305

a reaction to a stress that's coming in.

: 1028

00:55:06,950 --> 00:55:13,050

But then doing this, the hard work

of, of prioritizing and creating self

: 1029

00:55:13,060 --> 00:55:17,930

values that are tied to the things

that make up who you are and not

: 1030

00:55:17,930 --> 00:55:19,790

necessarily what your output might be.

: 1031

00:55:20,190 --> 00:55:21,260

In a professional setting.

: 1032

00:55:22,750 --> 00:55:23,620

Tony Tidbit: That's awesome, buddy.

: 1033

00:55:23,720 --> 00:55:24,320

That is Dr.

: 1034

00:55:24,320 --> 00:55:25,570

LeGoy anything you want to add to that?

: 1035

00:55:25,640 --> 00:55:27,820

Dr. Patrice LeGoy: I do think

the self talk is so powerful.

: 1036

00:55:27,820 --> 00:55:29,980

And, you know, I've had clients

that would say, you know,

: 1037

00:55:30,020 --> 00:55:31,230

terrible things about themselves.

: 1038

00:55:31,230 --> 00:55:33,200

And it's like, oh, that

sounds really harsh.

: 1039

00:55:33,530 --> 00:55:35,790

I can't imagine you speaking

to like your best friend.

: 1040

00:55:35,790 --> 00:55:37,500

Like, of course, I would never say that.

: 1041

00:55:37,820 --> 00:55:40,475

And if you wouldn't say that to

someone that you care about, Then

: 1042

00:55:40,485 --> 00:55:44,355

how do we show ourselves at least, at

least that same level of care, right?

: 1043

00:55:44,955 --> 00:55:46,425

At the minimum, at the minimum.

: 1044

00:55:46,635 --> 00:55:50,825

And I think sometimes it's valuable for

people to, in order to sepAddrate that

: 1045

00:55:50,875 --> 00:55:52,935

voice to understand where it comes from.

: 1046

00:55:53,155 --> 00:55:55,625

Oh, that's not, that's not actually

the way I feel about myself.

: 1047

00:55:55,625 --> 00:55:57,675

That's maybe some criticism

I heard when I was a kid.

: 1048

00:55:57,960 --> 00:55:58,800

From from that parent.

: 1049

00:55:58,870 --> 00:55:59,900

Okay, I'm not a child anymore.

: 1050

00:55:59,930 --> 00:56:01,210

I don't that doesn't belong to me.

: 1051

00:56:01,450 --> 00:56:02,240

I don't need to hold on to that.

: 1052

00:56:02,270 --> 00:56:06,340

What do I need to as you as you both said,

what what do I need to replace that with?

: 1053

00:56:06,350 --> 00:56:08,930

What is even if you if you,

you know, I'm a therapist.

: 1054

00:56:08,930 --> 00:56:10,450

Sorry, guys, I'm going to

bring it back to childhood.

: 1055

00:56:10,800 --> 00:56:12,830

So, you know, if if the question is.

: 1056

00:56:13,860 --> 00:56:17,350

What would I have liked to hear from my

parent rather than you're not good enough,

: 1057

00:56:17,670 --> 00:56:21,260

you know, that's an a minus, where's the

rest of the a, like that kind of weird,

: 1058

00:56:22,210 --> 00:56:22,480

Matt Schuster: what would I

: 1059

00:56:22,480 --> 00:56:23,290

Dr. Patrice LeGoy: rather have heard?

: 1060

00:56:23,510 --> 00:56:24,450

Did you try your best?

: 1061

00:56:24,710 --> 00:56:25,670

How do you feel about it?

: 1062

00:56:25,780 --> 00:56:26,580

Those kinds of things, right?

: 1063

00:56:26,600 --> 00:56:32,070

Sometimes it requires us to reparent

ourselves and figure out what that message

: 1064

00:56:32,070 --> 00:56:34,660

needs to be to feel good to us, right?

: 1065

00:56:34,670 --> 00:56:36,580

Rather than it's, it's much.

: 1066

00:56:37,285 --> 00:56:41,095

Both easier and more difficult to

keep reclaiming that same old message.

: 1067

00:56:41,535 --> 00:56:46,925

I'm finding what you actually need is a

little bit more work, but obviously, you

: 1068

00:56:46,925 --> 00:56:51,425

know, that's, that's going to be to get us

on that path towards feeling better about

: 1069

00:56:51,435 --> 00:56:53,205

who we are and what we're doing every day.

: 1070

00:56:53,205 --> 00:56:54,525

And that is not related to output.

: 1071

00:56:54,715 --> 00:56:57,019

As you said, sometimes

people who, you know, are.

: 1072

00:56:57,110 --> 00:57:00,240

Achieving the most and

seem fine their output.

: 1073

00:57:00,240 --> 00:57:02,820

You wouldn't know that's not where

you're going to find that fulfillment

: 1074

00:57:02,870 --> 00:57:05,710

It's like how do I feel about a

person when I wake up in the morning?

: 1075

00:57:05,900 --> 00:57:07,140

Do I feel like i'm a good person?

: 1076

00:57:07,340 --> 00:57:07,980

I'm working hard.

: 1077

00:57:08,010 --> 00:57:11,250

I'm trying to be present for my

for my family I'm trying to present

: 1078

00:57:11,260 --> 00:57:15,010

work and each day i'm trying and

each day i'm working on this, right?

: 1079

00:57:15,030 --> 00:57:19,520

That's that's what I think we are

seeking and that's where the self talk

: 1080

00:57:19,520 --> 00:57:22,935

can be So valuable, you know, we usually

talk about self talk as a negative,

: 1081

00:57:22,975 --> 00:57:27,285

but it can be so valuable in, in terms

of, we're not trying to be delusional

: 1082

00:57:27,325 --> 00:57:31,135

about what's happening, but we can

say, I'm on a journey and I look at all

: 1083

00:57:31,135 --> 00:57:32,335

these steps, I'm taking these steps.

: 1084

00:57:32,735 --> 00:57:37,635

To get to get me closer to where I

feel like I'm healthy and I'm well

: 1085

00:57:37,635 --> 00:57:40,055

and I'm present for everyone around me

: 1086

00:57:41,105 --> 00:57:41,975

Tony Tidbit: Right, right.

: 1087

00:57:41,975 --> 00:57:46,055

That is awesome Final question as

we close for both of you guys and

: 1088

00:57:46,055 --> 00:57:47,525

it's the same question, right?

: 1089

00:57:47,895 --> 00:57:53,535

You know, obviously We all know that

a lot of people in the workplace,

: 1090

00:57:54,015 --> 00:57:55,735

um, deal with these things.

: 1091

00:57:56,125 --> 00:57:56,855

Okay.

: 1092

00:57:57,105 --> 00:58:01,965

Um, look, I, I, I'm sitting here

listening and I'm nodding and,

: 1093

00:58:01,975 --> 00:58:06,515

and Matt, you know, I've, I've had

some of those situations, right?

: 1094

00:58:06,515 --> 00:58:08,515

And I may have some in

the future as well, right?

: 1095

00:58:08,515 --> 00:58:11,525

Because we're, we're human

and we're going to have those

: 1096

00:58:11,535 --> 00:58:13,425

emotional ups and downs and stuff.

: 1097

00:58:13,755 --> 00:58:15,315

So, I would love to hear from both of you.

: 1098

00:58:15,315 --> 00:58:16,615

I'll start with you first, Dr.

: 1099

00:58:16,615 --> 00:58:17,035

Legoy.

: 1100

00:58:17,035 --> 00:58:20,145

We're going to What is something

that, what advice would you give to

: 1101

00:58:20,145 --> 00:58:26,825

supervisors at companies that they can

help support their team's mental health?

: 1102

00:58:27,325 --> 00:58:30,165

So, you know, it does

inspire out of controls.

: 1103

00:58:30,165 --> 00:58:31,215

I want to hear from you on that.

: 1104

00:58:31,215 --> 00:58:33,785

And then Matt, obviously, since

you've been in, I'd love to

: 1105

00:58:33,785 --> 00:58:34,635

hear your thoughts as well.

: 1106

00:58:34,635 --> 00:58:35,197

I

: 1107

00:58:35,197 --> 00:58:39,694

Dr. Patrice LeGoy: think that sometimes

when someone's struggling, uh, we

: 1108

00:58:40,635 --> 00:58:43,435

sometimes don't say or do anything because

we don't know the right thing to say.

: 1109

00:58:43,755 --> 00:58:46,665

And I think sometimes it's

powerful to acknowledge.

: 1110

00:58:47,490 --> 00:58:50,090

You're supervisor of people, right?

: 1111

00:58:50,180 --> 00:58:52,570

That doesn't mean that

you're a trained therapist.

: 1112

00:58:52,590 --> 00:58:53,800

You don't need to have all the answers.

: 1113

00:58:53,800 --> 00:58:56,240

You don't need to solve

the problem for people.

: 1114

00:58:56,590 --> 00:58:57,910

Um, and I think just.

: 1115

00:58:58,420 --> 00:59:01,410

Acknowledging that takes a lot of the

pressure off and maybe people would

: 1116

00:59:01,420 --> 00:59:04,530

be more comfortable going and saying,

Hey, you know, is anything going on?

: 1117

00:59:04,540 --> 00:59:05,280

Do you want to talk?

: 1118

00:59:05,280 --> 00:59:07,010

Or, you know, is there

anything that I can do?

: 1119

00:59:07,360 --> 00:59:08,050

It's not that.

: 1120

00:59:08,370 --> 00:59:09,419

Oh, you should do this.

: 1121

00:59:09,420 --> 00:59:10,050

Do you do this?

: 1122

00:59:10,050 --> 00:59:10,670

You'll feel better.

: 1123

00:59:10,810 --> 00:59:13,590

I need to know that before I go

into this conversation with someone.

: 1124

00:59:13,810 --> 00:59:18,600

And I think having those kinds

of, of open kind of dialogues.

: 1125

00:59:18,950 --> 00:59:22,490

Is something that supervisors can

do without feeling like they need to

: 1126

00:59:22,500 --> 00:59:24,510

know everything, all the next steps.

: 1127

00:59:24,570 --> 00:59:28,420

And sometimes I think because, you

know, you talked about solving for

: 1128

00:59:28,420 --> 00:59:31,700

happiness because you're in that setting

where it's like, here's a problem.

: 1129

00:59:31,720 --> 00:59:32,680

Let me find a solution.

: 1130

00:59:33,035 --> 00:59:36,145

It's it can be hard to to train

our brains out of doing that.

: 1131

00:59:36,315 --> 00:59:37,795

No, I'm in front of a person.

: 1132

00:59:38,135 --> 00:59:39,295

You're not a problem.

: 1133

00:59:39,335 --> 00:59:40,175

You're a person.

: 1134

00:59:40,185 --> 00:59:41,665

You might be going

through some challenges.

: 1135

00:59:41,885 --> 00:59:43,155

How do we talk about it?

: 1136

00:59:43,285 --> 00:59:43,945

How do we talk about it?

: 1137

00:59:43,965 --> 00:59:44,855

We're not trying to solve it.

: 1138

00:59:44,855 --> 00:59:46,105

We're not trying to fix you.

: 1139

00:59:46,185 --> 00:59:46,555

Right?

: 1140

00:59:46,555 --> 00:59:47,285

You're not broken.

: 1141

00:59:47,485 --> 00:59:49,675

We're just we're just trying to

address what's happening here.

: 1142

00:59:49,835 --> 00:59:50,867

And I think that.

: 1143

00:59:52,315 --> 00:59:55,285

Normalizing those kinds of conversations

can relieve a lot of the pressure because

: 1144

00:59:55,695 --> 00:59:58,745

people often think it's not that they

don't speak up because they don't care.

: 1145

00:59:58,995 --> 01:00:00,265

It's because they don't know what to do.

: 1146

01:00:00,695 --> 01:00:02,985

And so they don't want to say

the wrong thing and mess you

: 1147

01:00:02,985 --> 01:00:04,382

up and all that kind of stuff.

: 1148

01:00:04,382 --> 01:00:07,725

So they just don't say anything and they,

and they ignore, like, you were talking

: 1149

01:00:07,725 --> 01:00:09,575

about Matt, some of those signs or signs.

: 1150

01:00:09,615 --> 01:00:11,145

Oh, that's that seems off.

: 1151

01:00:11,215 --> 01:00:12,905

You know, I think, yeah,

that seems really stressful.

: 1152

01:00:12,905 --> 01:00:14,105

They're not acting like anything's fine.

: 1153

01:00:14,315 --> 01:00:14,725

They ignore because.

: 1154

01:00:14,725 --> 01:00:20,725

It's scary to help in

that position, um, to.

: 1155

01:00:21,280 --> 01:00:26,100

To say, I see you, you know,

and, and I'm here really.

: 1156

01:00:26,150 --> 01:00:29,430

And, you know, I think that sometimes

that is all that people really need

: 1157

01:00:29,920 --> 01:00:33,840

is to know that someone sees them and,

and then you're planning a seat, right?

: 1158

01:00:33,840 --> 01:00:36,980

You're planning a seat where they're, Oh,

you know what, I'm going to stop ignoring

: 1159

01:00:36,980 --> 01:00:38,280

that thing that's going on with me.

: 1160

01:00:38,420 --> 01:00:41,900

Maybe I will go and talk to someone, you

know, so and so said, yeah, you know,

: 1161

01:00:42,120 --> 01:00:43,610

they're there, maybe I'll go talk to them.

: 1162

01:00:43,610 --> 01:00:45,670

Maybe, you know, maybe we'll go

out to lunch and I'll share a

: 1163

01:00:45,670 --> 01:00:46,960

little bit about what's going on.

: 1164

01:00:47,300 --> 01:00:51,970

Um, I think that removing some of that

burden of having the right answers.

: 1165

01:00:52,300 --> 01:00:55,700

Um, is something that's really

valuable for us to all keep in

: 1166

01:00:55,700 --> 01:00:58,240

mind, you know, leaders are not

leaders, just as people in life.

: 1167

01:00:58,610 --> 01:01:00,080

Um, I think it's really helpful

: 1168

01:01:02,780 --> 01:01:03,320

Tony Tidbit: going, Matt.

: 1169

01:01:03,370 --> 01:01:03,940

Go ahead, buddy.

: 1170

01:01:04,100 --> 01:01:05,560

Matt Schuster: I was gonna

say that's so spot on.

: 1171

01:01:05,770 --> 01:01:11,280

Like, that's right on exactly, uh,

exactly what I would have said.

: 1172

01:01:11,310 --> 01:01:14,590

It's, you know, create creating space.

: 1173

01:01:14,590 --> 01:01:17,079

And, um, I think that 1 of the.

: 1174

01:01:18,550 --> 01:01:24,240

As, as you know, you know, type A

individuals tend to move up into

: 1175

01:01:24,240 --> 01:01:27,370

more leadership roles because they

have the drive and the, and the inner

: 1176

01:01:27,370 --> 01:01:33,260

push and being type A also comes with

this, um, I can fix every problem.

: 1177

01:01:33,320 --> 01:01:34,420

And Dr.

: 1178

01:01:34,420 --> 01:01:39,740

LeGoy said, um, perfectly, which is, this

is not necessarily a problem to solve.

: 1179

01:01:39,780 --> 01:01:43,950

It's just, can you create a space for the.

: 1180

01:01:44,450 --> 01:01:47,590

Relief valve so they can

just share and speak.

: 1181

01:01:47,990 --> 01:01:54,030

Um, I think 1 of the things are 1

of the skills that, um, any manager

: 1182

01:01:54,030 --> 01:02:00,060

needs to practice or learn, though,

is to understand, expect that

: 1183

01:02:00,130 --> 01:02:02,930

everyone's got something going on and.

: 1184

01:02:03,730 --> 01:02:07,110

You know, you, you may be shocked,

they may share a ton, they may share a

: 1185

01:02:07,110 --> 01:02:11,580

little, but you can't necessarily, you

have to expect that you're going to hear

: 1186

01:02:11,580 --> 01:02:16,170

something and you can't let it impact

your opinion, position, or how you treat

: 1187

01:02:16,170 --> 01:02:20,110

that person, you know, the whole idea

of creating that safe space means that

: 1188

01:02:20,110 --> 01:02:23,790

they can share, I mean, within reason,

there's, you're not going to share their

: 1189

01:02:23,790 --> 01:02:28,050

whole life story, but, um, they can

share their inner thoughts and feelings

: 1190

01:02:28,050 --> 01:02:31,090

about things going on in the workplace

or things that may be troubling them,

: 1191

01:02:31,500 --> 01:02:32,890

uh, and they're not going to be judged.

: 1192

01:02:33,485 --> 01:02:38,125

Uh, and it's not going to negatively

impact, um, you know, their day to day.

: 1193

01:02:38,745 --> 01:02:42,905

And once you create that, then, you know,

they're going to feel more comfortable

: 1194

01:02:42,915 --> 01:02:44,495

to do so going forward and in the future.

: 1195

01:02:45,095 --> 01:02:49,275

And, um, yeah, I, I, like I

said, I a hundred percent agree.

: 1196

01:02:49,275 --> 01:02:51,705

I think it's, it is a

different skillset though.

: 1197

01:02:51,755 --> 01:02:56,095

I think it is something that as a

manager, you need to learn how to

: 1198

01:02:56,095 --> 01:03:01,875

create that space, how to, you know,

sometimes it's showing vulnerability

: 1199

01:03:01,875 --> 01:03:04,675

to earn shared vulnerability.

: 1200

01:03:05,185 --> 01:03:07,765

So opening up a little bit

yourself so that they feel

: 1201

01:03:07,765 --> 01:03:08,955

comfortable opening up with you.

: 1202

01:03:09,555 --> 01:03:12,395

Um, and, and that can go a long way.

: 1203

01:03:12,425 --> 01:03:17,105

But, um, when we go back to employers,

what they can do, you know, that's

: 1204

01:03:17,125 --> 01:03:21,055

part of what they can do to help

make better managers is giving

: 1205

01:03:21,055 --> 01:03:25,155

them resources to train and learn

how to, how to create that space.

: 1206

01:03:25,665 --> 01:03:28,045

Um, because we're not talking about

something that's performance based.

: 1207

01:03:28,055 --> 01:03:29,645

It's not like do your job better.

: 1208

01:03:29,655 --> 01:03:29,985

It's.

: 1209

01:03:31,470 --> 01:03:37,280

Uh, okay, you know, being, um,

uh, uh, a human being with a high

: 1210

01:03:37,290 --> 01:03:40,010

EQ and how can we do that better?

: 1211

01:03:40,550 --> 01:03:41,520

Tony Tidbit: Right, right.

: 1212

01:03:41,610 --> 01:03:45,520

Well, look, I want to thank

both of you guys for coming on

: 1213

01:03:45,530 --> 01:03:48,340

the Black Executive Perspective

podcast to talk about this topic.

: 1214

01:03:48,750 --> 01:03:50,760

This is something that transcends race.

: 1215

01:03:50,780 --> 01:03:52,990

This is something that every

human being goes through.

: 1216

01:03:53,480 --> 01:03:56,000

Um, this is something we'll

continue to go through as being

: 1217

01:03:56,000 --> 01:03:57,770

human beings as we walk the earth.

: 1218

01:03:58,235 --> 01:04:02,825

In our journey, but I appreciate you

guys providing number 1 being vulnerable

: 1219

01:04:02,825 --> 01:04:07,905

and sharing and be an example of the

things that you're just get the advice

: 1220

01:04:07,905 --> 01:04:12,965

you just gave for managers or leaders

to be able to do and not even managers

: 1221

01:04:12,965 --> 01:04:14,465

and leaders, even family members.

: 1222

01:04:14,465 --> 01:04:15,985

You know, it reminds me of a story.

: 1223

01:04:16,335 --> 01:04:18,695

A friend of mine talked about when.

: 1224

01:04:19,145 --> 01:04:20,575

He somebody passed away.

: 1225

01:04:20,575 --> 01:04:21,835

I think his father passed away.

: 1226

01:04:22,355 --> 01:04:26,375

And typically when people pass

away, uh, you find a friend,

: 1227

01:04:26,525 --> 01:04:28,285

somebody in the family passed away.

: 1228

01:04:28,535 --> 01:04:33,105

People are nervous to come around them

because they are afraid of what to say.

: 1229

01:04:33,515 --> 01:04:34,025

Okay.

: 1230

01:04:34,025 --> 01:04:35,385

So they stay away.

: 1231

01:04:35,705 --> 01:04:37,575

And I never forgot what he said.

: 1232

01:04:37,585 --> 01:04:41,225

He said, listen, you don't

have to say anything.

: 1233

01:04:41,745 --> 01:04:43,065

Just be there.

: 1234

01:04:43,585 --> 01:04:44,275

Okay.

: 1235

01:04:44,375 --> 01:04:51,065

And by being there speaks loudly, and

it's the support the person needs,

: 1236

01:04:51,335 --> 01:04:54,595

you know, so it's the same way in

terms of what you guys talked about.

: 1237

01:04:54,595 --> 01:04:57,415

We talk about at work issues is.

: 1238

01:04:57,779 --> 01:04:58,920

You ain't got to solve it.

: 1239

01:04:59,150 --> 01:05:00,800

Just be open to listen.

: 1240

01:05:01,590 --> 01:05:07,210

Okay, that's part of being there

because just by listening It provides

: 1241

01:05:07,210 --> 01:05:12,990

an outlet for that person and they're

not dealing with it on their own

: 1242

01:05:13,370 --> 01:05:17,860

So I want to thank you both again

Stay right where you are because dr.

: 1243

01:05:17,860 --> 01:05:22,240

Legoy and matt are going to help us

with our call to action But before I

: 1244

01:05:22,250 --> 01:05:25,790

think it's now time for tony's tidbit.

: 1245

01:05:25,810 --> 01:05:30,635

So the tidbit today Based on what

we talked about is this when we

: 1246

01:05:30,635 --> 01:05:34,835

speak about our mental health

struggles, we're not showing weakness

: 1247

01:05:35,325 --> 01:05:37,195

or opening the door for strength.

: 1248

01:05:37,815 --> 01:05:43,395

support and understanding to

enter our professional lives.

: 1249

01:05:43,805 --> 01:05:46,105

And you heard that today from Dr.

: 1250

01:05:46,105 --> 01:05:47,305

LeGoy and Matt Schuster.

: 1251

01:05:47,345 --> 01:05:48,535

So we want to thank them.

: 1252

01:05:48,725 --> 01:05:52,915

And here, the other reminder,

don't miss, you know, our weekly

: 1253

01:05:52,975 --> 01:05:54,915

segment called need to know by Dr.

: 1254

01:05:54,915 --> 01:05:59,095

Nsenga Burton on a black

executive perspective podcast, Dr.

: 1255

01:05:59,095 --> 01:06:03,285

Burton dives into timely and crucial

topics that shape our communion world.

: 1256

01:06:03,605 --> 01:06:06,654

You don't want to miss these little

tidbits that she's throwing out.

: 1257

01:06:06,904 --> 01:06:07,165

It's.

: 1258

01:06:07,290 --> 01:06:08,320

every Thursday.

: 1259

01:06:08,450 --> 01:06:10,480

So make sure you check out need to know.

: 1260

01:06:10,730 --> 01:06:15,130

I hope you enjoyed today's episode

discussing, discussing mental

: 1261

01:06:15,140 --> 01:06:17,540

health challenges in the workplace.

: 1262

01:06:17,760 --> 01:06:21,230

So now it's time for BEP's call to action.

: 1263

01:06:21,520 --> 01:06:26,430

As you, as our frequent listeners

know, our goal, our mission is to

: 1264

01:06:26,430 --> 01:06:29,630

decrease all levels of discrimination.

: 1265

01:06:29,910 --> 01:06:31,150

All across the world.

: 1266

01:06:31,430 --> 01:06:33,660

So our call to action is called LESS.

: 1267

01:06:34,150 --> 01:06:35,870

L E S S.

: 1268

01:06:36,320 --> 01:06:37,990

And L stands for learn.

: 1269

01:06:37,990 --> 01:06:42,230

So the first thing you want to

learn and teach yourself about

: 1270

01:06:42,240 --> 01:06:44,340

racial and cultural nuances.

: 1271

01:06:44,610 --> 01:06:46,180

Learn about mental health.

: 1272

01:06:46,230 --> 01:06:49,270

All different type of things

that you're not used to that's

: 1273

01:06:49,270 --> 01:06:52,050

going to help enlighten you.

: 1274

01:06:52,440 --> 01:06:54,360

Matt Schuster: So then

E stands for empathize.

: 1275

01:06:55,600 --> 01:06:59,260

And that's to understand diverse

and different perspectives

: 1276

01:07:00,750 --> 01:07:04,480

Dr. Patrice LeGoy: is for share, um,

sharing your stories to enlighten

: 1277

01:07:04,480 --> 01:07:10,810

others, sharing your insights, um,

and not being afraid to be open

: 1278

01:07:10,840 --> 01:07:12,620

and vulnerable with your story.

: 1279

01:07:14,170 --> 01:07:14,870

Tony Tidbit: Absolutely.

: 1280

01:07:14,870 --> 01:07:15,160

Dr.

: 1281

01:07:15,160 --> 01:07:16,900

LeGoy and the final S is stop.

: 1282

01:07:17,290 --> 01:07:21,820

You want to actively to stop all

discrimination as it walks in your path.

: 1283

01:07:22,110 --> 01:07:25,360

So if uncle John says something

at the Thanksgiving table, that's

: 1284

01:07:25,370 --> 01:07:30,690

inappropriate, you say, uncle John,

we don't believe that we don't say

: 1285

01:07:30,690 --> 01:07:32,760

that, and you stop it right there.

: 1286

01:07:32,980 --> 01:07:39,790

So if everyone can incorporate less L E

S S, this will help us build a more fair,

: 1287

01:07:39,790 --> 01:07:42,185

more More understanding world, right?

: 1288

01:07:42,235 --> 01:07:45,625

And more importantly, we'll be able

to see the change that we want to

: 1289

01:07:45,625 --> 01:07:48,725

see because less will become more.

: 1290

01:07:49,285 --> 01:07:52,685

So don't forget to tune into our next

episode of a black executive protective

: 1291

01:07:52,685 --> 01:07:57,505

podcast, wherever you get your podcast,

and you can follow us on our social

: 1292

01:07:57,505 --> 01:08:03,875

channels of LinkedIn X, YouTube, Tik

TOK, Instagram, and Facebook at a

: 1293

01:08:03,875 --> 01:08:07,315

black exec for our fabulous guests, Dr.

: 1294

01:08:07,535 --> 01:08:08,225

Patrice.

: 1295

01:08:08,225 --> 01:08:09,395

LeGoy.

: 1296

01:08:09,690 --> 01:08:14,580

Matt Schuster, co founder of Addra Labs,

the greatest protein bar on the planet.

: 1297

01:08:14,740 --> 01:08:15,700

Definitely check it out.

: 1298

01:08:16,029 --> 01:08:17,350

I'm Tony tidbit.

: 1299

01:08:17,630 --> 01:08:18,779

We talked about it.

: 1300

01:08:18,779 --> 01:08:19,290

Guess what?

: 1301

01:08:19,300 --> 01:08:21,220

We learned about it today.

: 1302

01:08:21,560 --> 01:08:22,609

We love you.

: 1303

01:08:22,770 --> 01:08:23,510

And guess what?

: 1304

01:08:23,660 --> 01:08:24,149

We're out

: 1305

01:08:28,810 --> 01:08:31,399

BEP Narrator: a black

executive perspective.